Diverse thinkers, from the ancient Greek philosophers through contemporary quantum cosmology and eternal inflation theory, have called time an illusion. For them, the perception of time passing...
Primary links
Diverse thinkers, from the ancient Greek philosophers through contemporary quantum cosmology and eternal inflation theory, have called time an illusion. For them, the perception of time passing from present moment to present moment is an artefact of our psychology, so that anything real or true is real or true eternally and timelessly. The belief that reality lies in a timeless realm of truth, rather than in the flow of events our perceptions show us, might be supported by scientific argument but equally it reflects a metaphysical prejudice. Contemporary attempts to extend quantum theory to the cosmological, to encompass the whole Universe and not just a sub-system of it, are often couched in equations which suggest time is emergent from a timeless reality. But these attempts suffer from problems, both technical and conceptual, that are even more challenging than the usual conundrums of quantum theory. Several advances in the study of quantum gravity have shown that our four-dimensional space-time is only recovered in a version of the theory in which time is real and not emergent. I would hold that, contrary to the ancient metaphysical tradition, time is not only real, it is likely that it is the only aspect of reality we experience directly that is fundamental and not emergent from anything else.
Neither space nor time existed before the big bang. The three dimensions of space began from the big bang and have expanded since then at the speed of light. Thus nothing of the universe exists beyond that expanding wavefront, not even space itself. If the universe is four dimensional space-time, and if space began to expand from the big bang at the speed of light, maybe time also began to expand at the speed of light in a similar way. But there must be a difference between the space dimensions and the time dimension: we sit where we are in space, but we appear to be carried along at the expanding wavefront of time. There are some interesting consequences of this hypothesis. First, it explains the arrow of time as the expansion of the universe. Second, time travel to the future is impossible because the future does not exist. Third, time travel to the past is also impossible because it would be necessary to move backward in time at the speed of light just to stand still, and then to exceed light speed to go backwards. Fourth, mass cannot function in the time dimension or we could not be travelling through time at the speed of light. And fifth, there is an insight into time dilation: if the time dimension is orthogonal to the space dimensions, it follows that as an object approaches the speed of light in a space dimension its speed through time must reduce. Otherwise, its resultant speed would exceed light speed.
I am no expert or mathematician, but I have lived and have observed. I believe time is definitely man created. It was created by observations made relative to movement. Just as everything is energy in its basic form, everything vibrates at a certain speed. This speed of vibration is heavily dependant on the size and density of the mass, among other factors. This would explain why time would be different in space. We are limited by our bodies and environment to a pre-determined rate of vibration. Hence our perception of causal events which we classify as time. It is not possible for us to travel in time due to these very same limitations. We would have to be pure energy to break these limitations. This wwould also mean God would have to be pure energy. I know the word God and science don't necessarily go together in traditional scientific thinking, but they don't have to be mutually exclusive. The abscence of including God means everything happens randomly and without order. This does not seem to be practical or logical. By this thought process, it would also mean our souls are in fact pure energy and would therefore be immortal and not bound by time.Human beings, the earth and all therein are connected and every action causes a domino effect somewhere down the line.
Well I'd agree that the labels and recording is certainly something we have created but the progression of events in a consistent manner is something that happens without our input as it did for billions of years prior to our ability to observe. The formation and evolution of the verse happened in a specific direction if you will, life formed and evolved on Terra in a specific progression over time from single cell to more complex and not the other way round. These events happen in a space independent of humans so from where I'm sitting time is an inherent property of the verse.
Now regards these good vibrations, do you mean the vibating strings of string theory or something different? However, vibrating strings is not why progression of time is different in space, that's due to gravity wells and rate of travel. Nor do our bodies or environment set a pre-determined rate of vibration that then imposes our perception of time. There's simply no connection between these claims or justification for them, they do not follow from one to the next. This is also true of the claim that previous statements must mean god is pure energy. I mean leaving aside any question of that entity's existence one cannot reasonably say vibrations causes time therefore god is energy, that's essentially meaningless to be honest.
Now you say that without a god everything would be random and no, that would not seem practical or logical. However, there is no justification for the former claim that no god thus necessarily requires a universe without an order to progression, the physical laws we've discerned thus far more than provide that order sans any deity to maintain it by force of will; incidentally for which no evidence exists. What you posit is essentially circular reasoning proving the premise with itself. Thus there is also no basis for attributing any properties to souls which also lack any evidence of existence. These are really just assertions that you may wish to believe but none-the-less they lack any objective foundation in reality.
As for the mutually exclusive, well from my perspective they are. You see as I'm sure you know science operates on defineable, discoverable rules not open to random changes at whim or on an unknown cause. At no point is there a place in science for a free agent that sets all in motion or controls everything on an ongoing basis and can change it at will. Now some scientists may and do choose to place a deity at some beginning point but even they don't allow that deity to be an active participant / possibility in their work. No proper scientist ever set out to discover why or how something happens with one of the possible answers being god did it and why the two do not mix.
Well time is how we perceive and understand changes that occur in our surroundings in a logical, ordered structure. We order these changes starting with the most recent and then to the least recent changes which form a map of changes as we experience them which form our memory. As we progress through time we constantly add to this memory in the same logical, ordered structure. If there were no changes to observe then there is no need for time. The same holds for if there is nothing that can observe these changes there is no need for time. Light carries information that allows us to perceive these changes visually. If there is nothing that can observe these changes then there is no need for the information that is carried by light. Same thing can be said of the reverse. Sound is the same way. If you were to shout in a forest and there is nothing to observe the shout then you never really shouted. We are the only living being on this entire planet (and as far as we can tell, universe) that can observe these changes in a logical sense. If we are the destination of this information then what is the source of all this information?
Information increases because we keep track of past changes that occured using words (verbally or written) and we do so in the reverse logical, ordered structure (least recent to most recent - past to present) which form our history. We use these past sequence of changes (events) in order to help us make sense of the present world. We also use them to try and predict future events. Physics is our understanding of how the physical world changes that has been formed from previous perceptions and interpretations of change. We understand when a change occurs in the universe it does so in the exact same way everytime. It is constant which is why we can use logical, ordered structures (mathematics) to explain and predict these physical changes. These changes are the same from one observer to the next (if a star blows up and 100 observers were watching them they will all see a star blowing up in exactly the same logical, ordered structure and it will come into their memory the same way).
Our brains decide which events (logically, ordered sequences of changes) will be stored into our long term memory and which ones will not. That becomes different between each observer and how they interpret the information will be different as well. Basically the universe changes in a consistent and predictive manner but it is how we interpret the changes and even store them in memory that changes. Another thing is that one observer can witness a change that another observer does not which also changes the content of their memory and how they will interpret future events.
Reality is our own perception and interpretation of physical changes which can be different from the way other observers perceive and interpret these changes. Because of this time can appear to be slower or faster from one observer to another because they are perceiving and interpreting the changes differently. This also explains why you don't realize physical time when you are asleep or in a coma as your mind becomes disconnected teporarily from the physical world. The constantly changing universe is how we keep track of time.
On top of that one observer can invoke changes on another observer by means of the physical world. We inspire changes in our physical world through our minds first (thoughts, ideas, etc...) and we make a decision to invoke these changes into the physical world (actions) which an observer can perceive and interpret uniquely. Our character is defined as how we choose to manifest our thoughts into the physical world as sequences of changes (events). This is usully based on our own perception and interpretation of past events or lack thereof.
Our physical world changes in a constant manner that is predictive. It is apparent we are all meant to witness the same messages. It is us who perceive and interpret the messages differently. That is the non-constant in the equation.
Many people may not believe in God but in the beginning God said let there be light. He spoke it and when you speak something you have a destination in mind to hear your words. We are the destination (observer) and he is the source of the information. How we interpret and store the information may differ but we all see the same message.
Hi,
Basically you have created a premise – information being sent to us – so you may then ask the question of where from to ultimately supply a preconceived answer that as best as I can tell is not derived from anything in between; essentially asserting there is information, therefore god. I’ll return to this but first there are small issues with some statements.
“We order these changes starting with the most recent and then to the least recent changes”
Actually we don’t, they are already so ordered and the only logical, workable interpretation is to take them in the sequence they necessarily happened; the dust and gas cloud came before the stars and planets for example.
“The same holds for if there is nothing that can observe these changes there is no need for time.”
One may argue that in such a condition there is no need, indeed no source for labelling and recording of time, however, the universe still progresses from one state to another and thus time is present. The entire Sol system formed from a gas nebula without any observer to note the coalescing of this gas and ignition of Sol followed by the coalescing of the planets in a linear progression as physics dictate. Light does not merely convey information, it is the information and this holds regardless of whether there is anything to interpret that information or not, the light / information is not contingent on an observer to generate it. Sound is similar, it is a wave that travels through a medium and remains present whether or not there is something to process that wave. To make either dependent on an observer creates the absurd notion that nothing exists unless someone is around to see or hear, tis just a manifestation of anthropocentric arrogance and the universe got on quite well for billions of years without us to observe it. It did not pop into existence appearing as though it had existed for billions of years solely when someone started looking. The CMB for example existed since the birth of the universe, not merely at the recent point we could detect that information via the WMAP. Hence we can see that the information exists as is and not because an observer made it so, thus we are not an intended destination of any information and questions of a source or reason become moot.
“Because of this time can appear to be slower or faster from one observer to another because they are perceiving and interpreting the changes differently.”
None-the-less the span of time is exactly the same as measured by a recording device irrespective to how long or short it seemed to any observer. The exam flew by, Alexander the Great never seemed to end but the actual time passed is consistent.
Now as I mentioned much of the intervening stuff about consistency, perception and change has little or nothing to do with the introduction or conclusion beyond suggesting people can interpret things differently, perhaps to excuse the fact many will not buy the conclusion being proffered. That conclusion, god, is I’m afraid merely an assertion on your part really with no basis in the preceding text itself based on assertions, and you cannot just assert god into existence because that’s the answer you’ve elected to impose on an unnecessary question. Well to be sure you can but everyone else can dismiss it as easily as it were asserted which is why there is little point to it. However, even if we were to grant the premise that we are the destination of information, that in no way allows one to declare that source to be god, that’s just pulling answers from nowhere to accommodate a preconceived desire for a deity. It’s like saying biological systems appear designed therefore god, it’s just flawed reasoning that leads nowhere because there is nothing explanatory to it. Your conclusion, however strongly you may believe it, is simply not reasonably justified from where I’m sitting.
I dont have any mathematical prowess. I admire those that do. But I think about things alot.
Time is one of them. I think the answer to what time is or isn't will be the final brick in an complete and understandable cosmology construct. I feel that thinking about time as a independant component of any scientific model is a mistake, though. It is a red herring of sorts, because of causation. Understanding cause and effect need not include the concept of time, we only insert it as a way to identify provenance, that is to say define the mechanics of force, etc. If we could make a cosmological model without time in it, but still allow entropy, I believe we would be much closer to the prize. Please excuse my pitiful opinion if it is appears ridiculous; I cannot express universals mathematically, so I have to use words. For me, the problems isn't that something is missing in physical models, rather,it is that we are interjecting a purely subjective component, that is to say a human perception of time, into the equation.
Time isn't an illusion, but it's not a "dimension" either. The Second Law of Thermodynamics requires that entropy increase over time. Claude Shannon showed that entropy and information are equivalent. So the amount of information in the universe is increasing over time. Our brains perceive this increase in information as "time." There is more information now than in the past, and we don't yet have information about the future. That's it.
The mistake is to view time as a dimension we "travel" through, like space. It is not. Kurt Godel designed a space-time geometry using the field equations of General Relativity where time loops back on itself. This is meaningless, and it violates causation. Since GR is based on causation and the GR field equations violate causation, the GR interpretation of time causes a contradiction and it therefore must be wrong.
Minkowski 3+1 space-time is useful as an engineering model, but it's not reality. In fact, no classical theory comes close to explaining reality, whereas quantum physics does. Experiments using Bell's inequality show that quantum phyics is real and classical theory is not. The universe is made out of information, and information is constantly increasing. Time is our perception of this increase. On the quantum level, time doesn't exist, but on the macroscopic level it does.
ITS REAL, its the thing that stops everything from happening all at once.
Physics depend on time's existance. Without it there would be no movement of atoms, heat energy, speed or acceleration.
time exists and is as real a property of the universe as gravity.
For an experiential view of the illusory nature of time, see these short Youtubes in the video series "Time Out!":
www.Youtube.com/PeterDziuban
we know time exists but the real question is: WHAT IS IT??? try answering this
Physical time is run of clocks in a timeless space.
"Past-present-future" is a mind frame through which we experience run of clocks and all other material change in timeless space.
see more in my article here
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=PHESEM000023000002000330000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes&ref=no
Yours Sincerely, Amrit Sorli
Time is made up. It is only perceived from three key aspects. Realization, Consciousness, and Motion. We only use time as a measurement. If you see it is seven o' clock and later see its nine o' clock, did two hours pass by? Or did you render the realization of consciousness and motion. For instance, if a man has a coma for two years and wakes up; you can tell him that he was in a coma for two days and he would probably believe you. This is because he did not render Realization, Consciousness and Motion because he was in a coma.
Time exists for us because we understand that there is a imminent end to all things.
Being conscious of this forces us to use, live and think around time, I feel. 8) (what was we on about?) lol
( YES. As i use a hammer to build the house, i use time to choose when best to do it.) Both tools of human consciousness.
surely time is just a label so that we can communicate our interpretation of something that is, was, or is going to happen in the physical world. The label of time is just an expression so that we as a race can communicate effectively. things will happen in the physical universe regardless of whether the human race exists in it or not, the only difference is that humans will label these events and place them into the order in which they occurred and to make these events easier to catalogue and place the label of time was created as a point or points of reference so that people could say...."oh yes i have dentist next Wednesday" .....The word and by assocciation the concept of time is really just a label so that any person can relate a sequence of events or future events to another person in a logical way.
Time exists because we use it...It was invented. But Does the Universe have an Awareness Of Time. To Suggest that Time is Real is to also suggest that there are larger things at work in Creation... Imagine this Paradox.. Your dreaming a dream of the future but you dont know its the future until you witness it coming true, but you realised that the dream you were having was of someones future and you were just remotely viewing it through the dream... You notice the Dream is happening for real, and you know its that person and not you.. If you stood infront of the person and send yourself a message so you could change something in the past, would you be able to allow the dream to come true... Time does not seem to have rules, What if traveling through time requires the understanding that time has no boundries and thus the past present and furture exist as one... Im confusing you i know, but if I told you staight out you would not be able to find the conlusion for these words by your own experince.... Time exists because someone invented it... But does the Universe Know Time Exists.
sorry for my poor english,,, but when you get hungry, in every second you feel a harder pian in your stomach, and you will fear about the 2 minutes later,,, and that easy you will belive in Time and future,,,
Events exist and create a perception of "time" passing.
eliminate the event, and the perception of "time" passing becomes irrelevant. It becomes forever present.
"no time like the present" Maybe that means more that we know.
Surely we only know we exist because time itself also exists. But actually only the present exists, and only as we experience it, and so reference to time can only be made by way of experience. If nothing sentinent were around to experience time then it wouldn't exist. It's a bit like the question: if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it does it make a noise? Except in the case of time then no, time does not exist if its flow through a continual present is not experienced by reference to a future-present-past continuum. Um...
I was just sitting here thinking about this when I blogged and strangely, I come on to this site and what do I find? I doubt coincidence.
My blog on this topic:
http://jonspade.blogspot.com/2009/10/on-lighter-note.html
Time is not an illusion. Space and time are a single continuum. One cannot exist without the other. Time travels at different speeds depending on where you go in the universe. I used to think of time as being just a concept but it is actually more of a physical dimension that actually exists. If einstein said it, it must be true!
I can't believe scientist are wasting their time with this. If time is an illusion, what a coincidence that time seems to predict the suns pattern, as well as all of astrology. The only illusion of time is the way we perceive it... ie. seconds, minutes etc. Those all being man-made measurements of what we refer to as time. If time is an illusion then so is speed. Is speed an illusion to now? Are we not traveling through space, rather space is travelling to us? Come on, sometimes I think scientists are a bunch of kids tripping on acid.
I beleive that time is simply movement, or at least time as we know it is simply movement. by guaging something moving and thereby changing we aver that time is passing'.
Consider if everything remained at absolute zero and so not even an electron is moving, if we can not see any change we can not perceive time as moving at all, and then surely time as well as everything else is quite figuratively standing still.
Considering passage of time as a measure of movement rather than a psychological phenomenon takes time away from being simply a man-made construct/experience to a physical phenomenon.
CN
Hmmmm, I understood the question but I got lost on that answer!
To me, time is a man-made concept invented to give understanding to the 'then, now and future' of his existence. Without mankind, I think it is safe to say there would be no time as it would not have been invented. I further believe that outside of this planet and away from the influence of mankind, time really does not exist at all.
To us, the parameter that we have chosen to describe how fast we think light travels equals the limit of understanding our invented concept of time and distance.
In reality, assuming that man had never been invented, these parameters and limits would not actually exist.
But he was and he invented such parameters and limits to try, perhaps rather badly, to explain and understand what he sees about him.
Food for thought?
Chopin - thanks for so eloquently mirroring my exact thoughts on the subject - you have saved me the trouble!
To take it a step further, accepting that time as we know it is man-made, the rather odd thing that strikes me is the rather clumsy units that man chose for his classifications of time.
Would it not have been better to denote the passing of time as decimal units? Seconds, minutes, hours are all the invention of man - the only true constants are the days and years as dictated by Earth's rotational and orbital periods.( and months, as dictated by the moon's movements)
Really, these could have been called anything, I just think decimal time would have been so much easier to live and work with.
I'm 17 and I get really annoyed when someone says that time is an illusion.
To me, time ( past, present and future ) is based around energy, and where exactly that energy is depending on the time. They say energy cannot be destroyed or created, so imagine that you have 2 chemicals which have not yet bonded, which we can imagine is the past, and in the present, we have 1 chemical, which is made from the 2 chemicals which have now bonded, this is now the present, and we don't know the future yet, so whatever happens in the future is in correspondance to what happens in the present.
Basically, the energy which was at first in the 2 chemicals is now at present in the 1 chemical, but would be keeping the 2 chemicals together, and we don't know what will happen to it in the future, so we cannot say.
When people say time machines are possible, you'd need to double the amount of energy and mass in existance and place it into the same positions as it was at the time you wanted to visit, and then you'd need to place all of this somewhere where there is no existing mass or energy, well away from our universe. In my opinion, this would be impossible.
If time travel is possible and I go back to 10 minutes BEFORE the big bang, and somehow stop it happening-would I cease to exist at that point( as I could not possibly have been created in the first place!)
jim birkEtt BN1 3HG
some people have commented on time being an experience or perception (or perception of experience?), surely to answer the question of wether time is an illusion we need to properly define 'illusion'.
my idea of an illusion is very much based on perception vs actuality. The obvious example being optical illusions, perceiving something to be there when it's not.
My theory is that time exists, but as a measurement which is relative to space. So you cannot apply the same time measurements in one place (say the 24hr clock in our world) to another place (any other planet/sun/moon/asteroid etc in our galaxy or universe).
Also you cannot assume that one place is the same at a different point in time.
in answer to Tim=Travel, any change in time would affect space in some way as they are linked so closely, just as time is constantly being changed by where we are (seasons etc). :)
It is a given that; the earth rotates on itself; and it goes around the sun; and the sun goings round the galaxy; and the galaxy is in an ever expanding universe. Therefore we will never in the same place or point in time twice, ever.
If we could travel faster then the speed of light (big if) and we could determine the exact point in the universe that we were previously at – could we be where we where before we were there. (not sure if my 'where's' are right)
(or is all this spinning around and around on this planet going to my head)
Time itself is, I beleive, a real force directly linked to space that shapes and defines our universe. Where people become confused is the labels and divisions that we give them. Seconds, minutes and hours were created by us for concvenience but time as a force would march on regardless of them being there or not, it was around before our labels and will be around infinitely. Distance is the same, if humans were not here, two points a mile apart would still be the same distance apart, just no one would know to call it a mile, it wouldn't be any closer, or further away. You see, units of measurement are just our way of describing a complex and ever increasing array of natural phenomena caused by the laws of physics.
Diverse thinkers, from the ancient Greek philosophers through contemporary quantum cosmology and eternal inflation theory, have called time an illusion. For them, the perception of time passing...
Phlegm is the mucous secretion of the respiratory passages. The cilia cells that line these passages are continually driving the phlegm upward to the throat, where it triggers the swallow reflex...
Ordinary glass absorbs 97 per cent of the UVB rays that cause sunburn and some skin cancers, and 37 per cent of the less harmful UVA radiation. This translates to a protection of about SPF30, so...
It depends on how high (or low) you set the bar of fluency. Ziad Fazah, born in Liberia, brought up in Beirut and now living in Brazil, claims to be the world's greatest living polyglot, with a...
Vomiting is a deliberate response by the body that evolved as a purging mechanism to remove toxins or foreign bodies from the stomach and oesophagus. Since stomach contents are highly acidic,...
Diverse thinkers, from the ancient Greek philosophers through contemporary quantum cosmology and eternal inflation theory, have called time an illusion. For them, the perception of time passing...
Air crash investigators have found that flight stewards in rear-facing seats have suffered less severe injuries in accidents than forward-facing passengers. This is because the energy from the...
While Britons have pioneered all sorts of things from the steam engine and the computer to passenger jets and rugby football, we have dismally failed to maintain world dominance in much at all...
Most people agree that the years seem to pass at an ever-accelerating rate. That’s because traditions, anniversaries and celebrations gradually accumulate and merge, so that the difference...
Ordinary glass absorbs 97 per cent of the UVB rays that cause sunburn and some skin cancers, and 37 per cent of the less harmful UVA radiation. This translates to a protection of about SPF30, so...