BBC Focus Magazine

[Shadowwolf]

I recently noted the poll running on the front page with its heavy current trend towards enthusiastically implanting whatever knowledge was desired and thought it might make an interesting topic - or it might not, we'll see.

Would expert knowledge on tap for anyone and everyone - assuming low cost and ease of access - be a good thing that can only enrich society? Or would there be too many experts faced with limited positions and a surfeit of unfulfilling positions given their newfound potential? Could such a thing ever be low cost and thus be kept in the domain of the elites so as to ensure the general populace remains happy with doing all the ordinary work that needs to be done? Is there a useful storage capacity to our brain that would limit how much we could implant and still effectively use, too much leading to new neurological problems? If knowledge can be implanted, anything can be implanted or bits left out, what is the danger for abuse and culpability should something go wrong? Think of an engineer implant that missed some crucial information on structural loading.

[Lateralman]

Does this mean that we would need a head extension to get ahead?

Will we need a wheelbarrow to carry our brains around in?

If we all become a bunch of know-alls then will ‘Robbie the Robot’ empty my bins?

Utopian society. Don’t think so.

A service for those who can afford it more likely. Nineteen eighty-four comes one-step closer to the revival of slavery for the masses.

Ultimately, there will be a giant brain ruling us all.

On a positive note, I have always wanted to learn how to play the piano.

[Jamie]

"I know Kung-Fu"

[Jamie]

On a serious note, maybe it's just the next step up from books, knowledge wise, providing it works ok. Skills though ? Doesn't your brain need to be rewired internally to make use of any knowledge - I can't read a book on Kung-Fu and instantly be a practical expert.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Sorry to go a bit retro on you all but this reminds me of Joe 90 (Gerry Anderson puppet show from the 1960's) but that only worked because the subject Joe was only 8 or 9 years old so his mind was sufficiently pliable to accept a new implanted skill with each new programme over writing the old one.
I'm left wondering if an adults mind could cope with the process of 'enhancement' if the basic brain patterns are not sufficiently adapatble... and when you know everything you want to know ............. then what?
Will society even have a need for your skills or by some perverse reversal of logic could the simple fool come to control the intellectuals.... perhaps?

[Thinker]

Why are you guys so pessimistic all the time?

I think this is a great idea. I'll have the art of robotics uploaded first and a degree in nano-technology. Using this invaluable knowledge I can create my own minions dedicated to serving my own vision of complete world domination. Next on the list would be psychology of the Derren Brown variety so I can do all of that "Look into my eyes.." malarkey. Get the human population to become dribbling idiots that see me or my picture and automatically fall to their knees in awe...

Or I could just get a degree in Karma Sutra...

Please note. Any references to world domination are strictly confidential and your brain will automatically forget what you have read and be turned into porridge should you attempt to spread this information

[Shadowwolf]

I think the flaw with "the plan" is an assumed exclusivity on your part Mr Thinker, you'll be fine so long as no one else implants the required knowledge or has similar designs.

Doesn't your brain need to be rewired internally to make use of any knowledge - I can't read a book on Kung-Fu and instantly be a practical expert.

Good point, would you know all the technical details but be unable to use them without extensive practice? However, when one reads a book one only takes in a certain amount of the information presented, any gaps require looking at the book again which may not always be practical. If it were implanted the information would, or at least should all be available on demand and thus all moves would be known and be available to be preformed no? If you're not fit enough that may impede your ability, but the knowledge of what and how to do it should still be there.

If such a thing were possible it is possible that much of the education system would close up shop what with it being redundant. What would this do to childhood? Extended or shortened as the little tykes can now be more productive. What of university research? Such a thing requires significant funding and much of that is derived from teaching fees which no longer exist. Might be offset by charging that fee level for the implant but that clearly places advantage to those with the most funds who can purchase more and better.

Of course, does knowledge equate to understanding? Would all the knowledge change previously held and erroneous beliefs or would there be a debilitating clash between the present facts and what the person had wished were true? Take the science crank, would the full knowledge of physics finally enable them to realise the error of their claims or would they still view it as establishment lies and carry on trying to invent the free energy device etc., all whilst the back of their mind screams, "wrong, WRONG" at them? Would the raft of pseudo-science and paranormal folks if given full knowledge of critical thinking give up the fantasy or just invent more elaborate sounding excuses? Is useful knowledge not simply about having a string of facts or skills implanted and on hand but actual usage, engaging with problems and reasoning them through? We can present the simple facts to those who cleave to erroneous or downright false beliefs, these folks can see these explanations and understand em but nonetheless proceed to invent cheap and illogical excuses so that they may ignore reality. You can see them literally making stuff up to get around the problem they have been presented and can clearly see is there. Don't see that changing whether they read the facts or have them implanted, so would implanting actually work? Would it be as Mr Jamie suggested, sans the restructuring brought about by engaging with the material, that you're just an encyclopedia on any given subject whether you believe it or not?

[Thinker]

I think the flaw with "the plan" is an assumed exclusivity on your part Mr Thinker, you'll be fine so long as no one else implants the required knowledge or has similar designs.

You've always got to spoil it don't you!

I was looking at it "Laterally", if you know what I mean.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Why are you guys so pessimistic all the time?

Not all the time surely?

[Thinker]

I tried to do you all justice by entering the strikethrough BBCode on the word "realistic", but it didn't work. So it looks like I'm having a pop at you now...Who cares! I'm too soft natured most of the time anyway!

[Lateralman]

From I know nothing, to now there is nothing I do not know.

Where is the challenge in that if everyone can be wired up to do it? It would harbour the death knell for you guys and this site. For there would be nothing to discuss, no questions to ask because we all know the answers.

Overnight the whole world would become an extremely boring place filled to capacity with knowledge and skill clones.

Folks who never make mistakes because they can do anything. Mr and Mrs Perfect.

You would have nothing to think about so you might as well put in for a lobotomy just so you can stand out from the crowd.

People will love you because you can say, ‘I do not know,’ to the answer to a question, lose at chess, can’t boil an egg, hit your thumb with a hammer, or spell rong wrong.

You could find yourself celebrity on TV, constantly front-page news. “Earths Last Idiot!” Just for being normal. For being human.

You would survive for far longer than those who had a knowledge implant. Because they would over think things and would never be able to shake off that niggling element of doubt that would eventually drive them insane trying to figure if they are right or wrong.

So much knowledge would be stuffed into their heads that they would pop! Like the ‘Mars Attacks’ chappies.

Now where did I put that old “When I’m calling you,” record.

[Shadowwolf]

Lateral you are in error by assuming that humanity already knows everything there is to know and that were knowledge easily implanted then anyone would then be able to know everything there is to know. Humanity does not know everything so there is plenty left that we do not know, to discover and to discuss in the process.

You would survive for far longer than those who had a knowledge implant. Because they would over think things and would never be able to shake off that niggling element of doubt that would eventually drive them insane trying to figure if they are right or wrong.

Sounds like envy to me, imagining that those with knowledge must be living terrible doubt-ridden lives just so the ignorant can be comfortable with remaining so.

[MikeG]

I remember reading years ago about some experiments where rats were taught to run a complex maze, over a period of lets say, 3 days. These rats were then killed, their brains were removed, and the extracted chemicals injected into a new batch of rats. This second generation learned the maze in 1 day, as if they had inherited memories from the dead rats. So its not unlikely that this could actually materialize at some point. If these chemical sequences could be identified and replicated artificially, we will probable see a time when experts in various subjects (graduates of prestigious universities of course), would set up shop, selling these chemical sequences extracted from their own brains.

[Lateralman]

Apologies Mr Wolf. Good point. Got a little carried away. I was attempting to envision a forthcoming future and not looking at the obvious advantages of any immediate short-term benefit.

Anyhow, I will be getting in line for a knowledge implant like yours so no need for envy.

[Jamie]

Good point, would you know all the technical details but be unable to use them without extensive practice? However, when one reads a book one only takes in a certain amount of the information presented, any gaps require looking at the book again which may not always be practical. If it were implanted the information would, or at least should all be available on demand and thus all moves would be known and be available to be preformed no? If you're not fit enough that may impede your ability, but the knowledge of what and how to do it should still be there.

Knowledge doesn't equate to experience though. I can learn a new chord on the guitar, and know the notes and finger positions, but I can't just play it. You have to practice to get the muscle memory to allow you to play it and then move between that and other chords (and back). Every time I practice it, little pathways are formed in my brain making it more efficient (according the Royal Institute's Lectures this Christmas anyways!) I can just imagine implanting knowledge, but rewiring individual, unique brains to allow it to be used seems a bit far fetched - for the foreseeable future at least.

[Shadowwolf]

True Mr Jamie, being a walking encyclopedia might be the most likely result, at least in practical tasks / skills.

I remember reading years ago about some experiments where rats were taught to run a complex maze...

I've heard something along those lines before, don't think it sounded very likely then either, as merely injecting a chemical soup of pureed brain is not going to transfer memory. I mean how would these chems end up in exactly the right place for new memory formation? There is either more to it or something no be right methinks.

Anyhow, I will be getting in line for a knowledge implant like yours so no need for envy.

Studying history then? Somehow I don't think they'll be doing people, bit more complex that and essentially overwriting the persona already there with a mental clone.

[Healerman]

Knowledge doesn't equate to experience though. I can learn a new chord on the guitar, and know the notes and finger positions, but I can't just play it. You have to practice to get the muscle memory to allow you to play it and then move between that and other chords (and back). Every time I practice it, little pathways are formed in my brain making it more efficient (according the Royal Institute's Lectures this Christmas anyways!) I can just imagine implanting knowledge, but rewiring individual, unique brains to allow it to be used seems a bit far fetched - for the foreseeable future at least.

That really is the heart of it. We have, short, medium and long term memory. There is habitual or "muscle" memory. FMRI has shown how different parts of the brain come into play for these different functions. Reasoning and calculating are patterns we develop, just like playing the guitar, by practice. There are huge differences between knowing of the theory of relativity, being able to use it and actually understanding it. But then the original question was about "skills"and not knowledge.

Now if you could do such a thing to enhance your ability to process information, and then plug into a database / the internet / whatever, and use it as an expansion of your memeory...powerful stuff.

[nemisis39]

Could i have all known knowledge of the planet implanted please. Imagine the game shows i could win

[M Paul Lloyd]

You could indeed Nemesis. but imagine the questions?!

Anyway something occurred to me after reading what Jamie and Healerman were saying, you see (at the risk of sounding like a show off) I know pretty much all their is to know about how a plane flies through the air, from the initial walk-round checks, control checks to starting the engine, taxiing, take-off, instrument reading, the easy bit in the middle and landing, I even know why each part of an aeroplane does what it does and how.

But, I can't fly and never have actually done all of that, save for some of the ground checks and 'easy bit in the middle' which really doesn't count.

So yes knowledge isn't everything, indeed, on its own, it isn't very much at all.

[nemisis39]

joking aside it could be useful in professional applications were skills are needed quick ie in the medical profession (please state the nature of the medical emergency ), ok i understand that its not all about how much you no its also about experience but if you can get the basics down pat very quickly then it would be an advantage. How far would it go though there could be shall i say some what dubious applications