BBC Focus Magazine

[Shadowwolf]

No this is not some musing on whether or not getting wasted / hammered is a good idea or not, I'm wondering about money.

You see I recently learned that the Templeton* outfit are splurging a cool five million dollars in the service of researching NDEs and the afterlife in a scientifically rigorous manner; even though the lead man is a philosopher. That's a considerable sum they've ponied up, a sum that could be employed for many research topics yet this is being spent on researching the afterlife.

Really!? Five mill and it's being spent on something for which there's no credible evidence? We already know where the damn NDEs spring from, we already know that mediums inhabit a spectrum from knowing fakes to delusional fools and despite decades and decades we have not one scrap of credible evidence for anything coming back or ghosts. What's there to be researched? How is the negative trend in what we know not good enough? It's like constantly proposing new studies of homeopathy, all the many others fail to show anything and the inevitable few that show fuzzy insignificant results in any other drug would indicate the failure of that drug. Clearly there's nothing there to be researched and doing study after study is not going to suddenly magic out the conclusion the believers wish were there. So why this?

Okay, it's their money so they can waste it if they like but it's still an egregious waste in the service of nothing or is it?

* - An agenda organisation that works to conflate science with faith and rewards folks for trying to bridge the two instead of doing the obvious and realising the latter has no use in the former. This is also the same outfit that spent quite a bit of money on researching the effects of intercessory prayer which reached the stunning conclusion that it did nothing, a surprise to all no doubt and completely ignored by the praying type. .

[Lateralman]

Hmm, I wonder what those billions in the afterlife would do to me if I didn’t use my millions to help those who are sick here.

[MikeG]

It would be interesting to see what approach they take. I wonder if they will try to determine if the "21 grams" is valid? If this study is well executed and scientific, it may put to rest a lot of notions on the existence of an afterlife, and let us collectively move on.

[Lateralman]

If there is an afterlife, only the clarity of our conscience will make us fit for purpose.

[Shadowwolf]

Uhhh riiight..., moving along.

If this study is well executed and scientific, it may put to rest a lot of notions on the existence of an afterlife, and let us collectively move on.

Well that's just it, what are they going to look at to gather data? They mentioned NDEs but the source of that phenomena is hardly in dispute these days. In fact there is nothing that has not been already conclusively scotched either through good science or because what's been offered is neither testable nor falsifiable. To me it is spending a lot of money to conclude the obvious, it's not as if there is some inexplicable phenomena still waiting on analysis, there's zip so what do you study?

Even if - and given the outfit involved I'd have my doubts - they reached a conclusion of no afterlife it would likely be framed as no evidence for one, not that there is none and it would be as ignored by the faithful as every other bit of science they don't like is ignored.

As for the 21 gram thing, that was as a result of bad / inaccurate research, there's no consistent loss and nothing else to be done there.

[Lateralman]

If we knew before hand, it would spoil the surprise.

[Lateralman]

So, the money is to be used by the living to find out about the dead before the living are dead while the living are living even though the living will one day be dead and know what it is like to be dead without having used the money to help save the living from dying.

Correct?

[M Paul Lloyd]

If you say so Lateral..................

[Lateralman]

Well, I for one won’t be dying to know.

In fact, the worry of knowing where I am going would only make me arrive sooner.

[MikeG]

As for the 21 gram thing, that was as a result of bad / inaccurate research, there's no consistent loss and nothing else to be done there.

If it was poorly done the first times around, this is the chance to get it right. This topic has just received a boost from Dan Brown in the Lost Symbol. Given that it has captured the publics immagination, and will be featured in a movie soon, now would be a good time to investigate this, at a time when people will notice. As you point out SW, the money be spent anyway.

[Shadowwolf]

It was more than just poorly done, there was little reason to expect any marked weight loss amongst the expected decreases in weight in the first place. I reckons that at this stage we have enough evidence to indicate the complete lack of this 'soul' object that there is little reason to return to Dr MacDougall's particular experiment. I also somehow doubt that this latest effort has any intention of returning to them either, even with the money earmarked on this project. I don't think there's going to be much by way of lab work involved either, more data analysis and I suspect much of that will be anecdote.

[Lateralman]

Oh no! Perhaps the Martians discovered the answer to the afterlife and they all decided to top themselves. No wonder there’s no sign of life on Mars.

Looking at the positive side that is any population problem sorted.

[Shadowwolf]

You've got the wrong thread haven't you?

[Lateralman]

Actually, Mr Wolf the comment is relevant there is a side to this sort of research that you have not mentioned that could possibly lead to a catastrophic outcome given what we have seen happen to people who join lunatic fringe cults. I can relate to the fact that if there was anything in it, this would lend comfort to the bereaved but the down side is what influence any results, positive or negative may have on the general population.

As I recall, members on this site discussed NDE in the past and to some extent with obvious logical conclusions.

Unless that is, I have the wrong and of the stick.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Ah yes, Near Death Experiences, now they have been shown to be nothing more than halucinations, bright lights, out of body stuff, all seem to be a result of how our brain deals with a dangerous situation. Essentially Near Death Experiences are the result of a brain shutting down due to lack of oxygen. Plus people generally see what they expect to see with the result that different religious groups have different versions of same.
It has been extensivly researched and found to be nothing more than a illusion of the mind although this hasn't stopped some well qualified academics from making some very wild claim about it or indeed making quite a lot of money out of it.
There is simply no evidence that any of it is true.

I think these cover it.
http://skepdic.com/nde.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... HNDEs.html

[Lateralman]

It does Mr Lloyd and anyway, I thought we have recently discovered that life is just a bunch of sticky bosons. Then the afterlife must just be a bunch of 'none' sticky bosons.

Unless that is, I have the wrong and of the sticky stick.

[M Paul Lloyd]

End Lateral... end of the stick not 'and'..............

Anyway we have no evidence of an afterlife............. it's like formatting a hard drive, it all just goes away and is lost, no meeting old family members no cosy, fuzzy eternity of bliss, it just ends.

So best make the most of the life you do get, don't waste a moment of it.

[Lateralman]

Apologies Mr Lloyd, yes ‘end.’

Anyway, then why are we here? There has to be purpose. The reality is that we do not know. That is why I plague you lads with odd questions. In truth, I do not think we should know the truth.

Logically your children are your afterlife.

Anyhow, when my time comes, I would rather just humbly exit this world and make a grand entrance into the next.

The afterlife, standing room only.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Our purpose is to explore and learn Lateral, to expand our collective knowledge of the world we live on. If you study our history that is what we have always done, and so too, in time, we turn to the universe around us, discovering where it all came from and where, eventually I hope, we go to............. but as a species, not wrapped up in some selfish delusional promise of individual immortality.

As far as the utterly unthinking and benign universe is concerned we matter very little at all, a tiny blue dot on the edge of an unremarkable galaxy that is one of billions in the universe, but we do have the potential to be more than we are.

The future is our afterlife.

[Lateralman]

Exactly Mr Lloyd, we are not imortal. However, what makes us think that we are any more special than any other species that shares this blue dot with us?