Where is the visible Universe?
Post by Lateralman » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:14 pm
Where is the visible Universe?
We have touched upon this topic before and this dumb question still troubles me.
If we as stargazers are able to look back deep in time with our telescopes and capture images of the early universe that are presumably millions and billions of years old, then where is it now?
For in the time light has travelled that far to reach here to reveal to us these images of the past. The early universe must have moved, if as we believe it has been expanding over a thirteen billion year period. Therefore, I interpret this to mean that nothing that we can see when we look out into deep space is actually there.
So if it has moved, then where to and why can’t we see it? Has the light where it has moved to not reached us yet? Why not?
Is it because we know that light photons do not travel in an instant to reach us from thirteen billion years ago. Then how could there have been a Big Bang or left over images of the early universe for us to capture after thirteen billion years? For if we can see past evidence of a Big Bang now, then that would mean that it all has happened now.
Again, if it has happened now then there has been no elapsed period of thirteen billion years. No time has passed. If it is still there and we are not looking into the past but the present as it is now.
In addition, if alternatively everything just made a grand appearance to be as it is now, then a Big Bang would have had nothing to do with creating a universe because everything just appeared like magic with no time elapsing. Nevertheless, if it has just appeared, then why is it ordered and moving?
However, we think we know that everything has not just appeared now, for if it had everything that we see would be an illusion. So where is the universe we cannot see?
In addition, if the early universe has moved, then any map we produce of the far regions of space must be wrong. If we are looking back into the past at images of the early universe then we are mapping something that no longer exists. How can that be possible?
Does this explain why some of the things, (The pillars of creation,) we see far out in space appear to vanish because the last photons of light from their past existence have finally finished reaching us? If these things vanish then why can't we see evidence of the remains of their disappearance if we are looking towards where they once were?
How do time, distance, the CBM and what we call red shift connect to all of this? How can we be sure that the universe is expanding when the planetary anchor points in space we use to gauge our calculations might not actually be there?
What are we seeing? Are we seeing duplicates of those events based on the length of time the speed of light has been broken may times over when we look back in time to the presumable event of the Big Bang?
On the other hand, is it that only the closest parts to us really exist in the positions we see them in and the ones furthest away only appear to be there but have actually moved, changed or ceased to exist the further we look back? In other words, the furthest parts away from us have moved somewhere else long ago because the speed of light can be broken over time and distance but by the time the light has reached us, they appear as they once were billions of years ago.
If events never go backwards and the arrow of time always points towards the future then why can we look deep into the night sky at the past? In addition how is it that what we see hasn’t gone through entropy if entropy always increases?
If we can look into the past then does that mean the past is still there and has not died? Does this mean that the arrow of time can never cease to exist? That it does move backwards.
Alternatively, has the whole universe moved and if it has then where is it now?
If it has moved, then is it possible to calculate where the invisible universe would or should be now even though we cannot see it? Is the infinite universe actually finite? If so, how finite is it? Moreover, if some parts have moved or ceased to exist then why haven’t these catastrophic events affected us?
Stranger still if I was standing on a world out there light years away looking back towards to here, what would I see? Blank empty space or would I see the reverse of what we see from Earth and would that be an image of the very early Earth or would it be as it is today?
Are we currently looking at ghost images of a distant visible universe that is no longer there? How can we look back into the past without being in the past or the past being there? How can we look at movement there when we are looking at something that is moving billions of years back in time? How can that be? How do light photons after travelling for billions of years remain intact to give us a clear un-blurred image? Why are they cohesive after travelling all these different distances over time and space?
What are we looking at exactly? What is real? What are we mapping? Where is the invisible universe?
Lots and lots of knots or is the answer simple? The universe is a UFO.
Disjointed suppositions and lack of knowledge perhaps but I feel something does not add up. I am confused. I don’t get it. Many minds make light work. Can anyone out there help explain a universal creation conundrum, which is visible to us all every night?
There is currently a discrepancy over our measurements of the distance of the moon from the earth that we do not understand.
Do you see what I am getting at?
what we are currently seeing is the universe as it was millions of years ago
I read somewhere that some scientist has detected evidence of there being not one Big Bang but several. Again, does this information relate to what I am referring?
Lateralman wrote:...try to forget what you know.
Lateralman wrote:Mr Lloyd, without wishing to be rude please for a moment try to forget what you know.
I will try again to explain this simple thought. If the sun stopped shining now we would only know about it eight minutes later. However, although we can see it shining now it has still stopped shining now.
That is it! I think we are being tricked. [...] The cosmos is a stage with an infinite magician’s trick played upon it. The deeper we look into it the more duped we become by sleight of hand.
I am aware of the hand trick thing...
How can I see a constantly updated image of the universe as it was billions of years ago? If that was so, and I could look that far back, I should be able to see other worlds populated with other advanced or ancient life forms. If I never had a telescope to look through the early universe would not exist.
Something is definitely not right. It might be me.
A begins to move. Eight minutes after A begins to move B sees A begin to move. Exactly, B does not know that A has moved until eight minutes have elapsed but nevertheless A has moved eight minutes ago. [...] What is there is still probably shining but it is no longer shining from the fixed points we currently see it shining from because the light we are currently viewing is very old  light.
All I would say is NASA should point its cameras or telescope, if the Rover is equipped with one, from Mars (though even this may not be far away enough) towards the stars and recalibrate their positions. As it is a permanent observation point far from earth and an opportunity (like the double slit experiment) to move around to the side to see if anything happens to their set.
I realise that I do not have an astute grasp of any of their past experiments and they may have already done so.
I still do not get the delay with light, even as we write there is a contradiction here as you said, “If an imaginary explosion obliterated this galaxy, a ‘YEAR’ later we would in a year’s time, note a tremendous increase in light followed by a gradual increase to nothing.” Therefore, even if we can see that galaxy now with our telescopes and if it suddenly exploded before our very eyes are we seeing it explode now or are we seeing it explode a year later?
Lateralman wrote:In this context when I refer to light, [...] Like in the double slit experiment when anyone tries to move closer to view the extra infrared slits they vanish.
Lateralman wrote:To prove this I think...
Lateralman wrote:All I would say is NASA should point its cameras or telescope, if the Rover is equipped with one, from Mars...
Lateralman wrote:I still do not get the delay with light, [...] are we seeing it explode now or are we seeing it explode a year later?
Lateralman wrote:Riddle me this, how can someone who is a none entity, who openly admits he knows zilch about science, have a fevered ego?
Lateralman wrote:Will I, you, the world’s scientific community, [..] with a fresh enquiring eye and have a crack at solving its secrets, why not?
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