BBC Focus Magazine

[Liam Sheppard]

I was on a train thinking about renewable energy.

Would it be viable to put hundreds of tiny wind turbines all over the U.K's existing Pylons? or do turbines have to be a certain size to make a viable cost/electric production?

[The Beige Avenger]

I've often thought of such...

It (mini wind electric generators) or anything alike are prohibited by economic viability. Yes you could do it, but are there cheaper ways to do the same thing... probably.

The technology is tricksy too. Turbines are probably not the way to go for miniaturisation but there's potential for piezo-electric devices or simple "induction"-esque devices that generate current by moving metals in magnetic fields... There was an ingenious adaptation for wind energy that consisted of a single fibre that vibrated in the wind (e.g. a bog standard wire) with a magnetic structure at its terminals. Much cheaper than turbines.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Unfortunately electricity pylons are designed specifically for purpose, in as much as they can support the electricity cables under most weather conditions but add the additional weight and drag of even mini turbines and it all starts to get a bit over stressed.
Plus the national grid runs at around 110 thousand volts to help reduce transmission inefficiency and mini turbines would not be capable of contributing to this in any useful form.
It would therefore still make more sense to build separate wind-farms I'm afraid. Sorry.

[Lateralman]

The futuristic concept of finding a way to combine the two in some way one day is a great idea!

[Robbie Nelson]

The futuristic concept of finding a way to combine the two in some way one day is a great idea!

I don't know about this, but..
the combination of wind energy and solar energy generators have been developed!

Have always been interested in wind generator plans but I was also open to the idea of
the best efficient renewable energy generators.

[M Paul Lloyd]

The trouble with wind as a source of energy is that it just isn't reliable enough, but localised power generation is certainly something with a lot of potential.

By coincidence the February issue of Focus (pages 48-53) has an interesting article by Tom Heap on just this subject, and he has tried wind power and from what he has said previously, found it lacking.
Powercells are mentioned, and these do have some useful applications but my money is on small, 10-15 megawatt output, nuclear power plants. Units very similar to these have been used since the 1950's in nuclear submarines and ships and have a remarkably good track record with regard to reliabilty and safety. Plus they only need refuelling every thirty years!

I certainly would have no objection to one or more being installed in my local area rather than have the huge inefficiencies of widespread power distribution to worry about.

If ever there was an oppertunity to turn 'swords into plough shears' well this surely has to be it?

[Lateralman]

If they are going to put wind turbines in the sea, why didn’t they combine wave technology alongside every wind turbine they have placed in the ocean?

That way they would have another source of energy generation with the tide going in and out when the wind is not blowing and need fewer wind turbines out there cluttering up the view.

[Shadowwolf]

I'm largely guessing but I think the siting of the two systems are completely different as are the construction requirements, and thus combining the two is at least difficult if not fairly unlikely. Would also make it cost quite a bit more.

[M Paul Lloyd]

The coast around the UK has the potential to provide a substantial proportion of our power needs but the engineering problems are immense. Its fine to extract wave power during normal sea conditions, thats been tried and it works fine enough, the real problems start when we get a storm, which is not unusual hereabouts and sadly, incredibly destructive. So the challenge is to create a device capable of extracting a useful amount energy from the motion of the sea that can also survive the full force of an Atlantic storm.
So far it is proving difficult to say the least so trying to attach anything of the kind to silly wind turbines is really not practical or even sensible.

[Lateralman]

Alternatively, couldn’t the wind turbines be designed like the upright pole fan, I have. With a heavy base that is converted for bobbing wave energy. This should look more aesthetic and take up far less space? In addition, the generator can be accessed more easily and the blades less likely to suffer damage.

On another positive note, couldn’t they have done something with that paving flag energy generation system I saw on the TV a while ago (you step on a flag and it generates electricity) only apply it to trains and rail tracks, cars and motorways.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Wind turbines come in all shapes and sizes Lateral, indeed in my local area alone I know of several different turbines of the upright design you mention but these are all quite small and from an efficiency point of view the big three bladed system generally adopted for the big windfarms is the most efficient although from an efficiency point of view they are not very efficient at all.

The power generating sidewalk idea is novel but requires a massive investment in setting it up with the returns being rather low by comparison. Despite the fact that we are talking about how to save our planet here pretty much all the systems we are discussing here are being installed because someone somewhere hopes to make money out of them.

[Liam Sheppard]

What about mini turbines on trains? solar panels on trains.

Catseye type dynamo's in the tarmac, vreating charge as you drive over them.

My battery in my car key ran out the other day, why doesn't it have a rechargeable battery that charges when it's plugged into the car!?

[M Paul Lloyd]

All systems require energy input at some point, cats eyes with inbuilt generators would need to be manufactured which uses energy, resources and creates carbon, wiring to transmit the power which loses efficiency over distance. Fans on trains extract energy from the engine at a loss, solar panels impose a weight penalty.

At a basic level you get nothing for free.

[Willxx]

Theres an immense amount of potential for making small reductions in demand on the grid.

Lots of small improvements in what we do on a daily basis - why not have each room light solar powered topped up every day with free daylight? Why not invest in battery packs which will allow one or two household appliances and top up again? Maybe a good idea to look at camping/travel tech and improve upon it ?

[Liam Sheppard]

Or all lights should be on a motion sensor in large offices and public buildings?

[M Paul Lloyd]

I'll second that idea Liam.

[Shadowwolf]

Or all lights should be on a motion sensor in large offices and public buildings?

This is actually happening on newer builds that have sustainable construction in mind but is still limited to specific areas like the lavs, the rest are still on ye olde switch system. Then of course is the alleged security reason that has stores leaving some level of lighting on.

[Liam Sheppard]

Security? if all the lights are off and a burglar breaks in, you'll see exactly what floor he is on!

[M Paul Lloyd]

I prefer the term insecurity lighting myself, which I think defines it perfectly.

They believe they will be broken into and as their anti theft security is underfunded it is therefore vulnerable to attack, so loads of light is seen as a cost effective deterrant.

What they do not allow for is that the shadows will be darker in contrast and as you point out Liam if all the lights are on how are you going to know where they are?

Besides most alarm systems are triggered by an infra-red signature anyway.

Turn them all off I say and buy torches.

[...]

i cant understand why more investment isn't put into nuclear fusion, this would be the ideal energy source for sure and there are a few prototype reactors out there that work, i know that they aint putting out more than they have put in yet but its a good start surely.