BBC Focus Magazine

[Shadowwolf]

We don't know, yet.

Anything else is just speculation and speculation has no currency scientifically speaking.

[M Paul Lloyd]

agreed mpl but that s still sidestepping the underlying question, where did it all come from?

That is a very good question but as Mr.S points out no-one really has a suitable answer. Indeed the entire notion that the universe originated from a single point in space is based upon Hubble’s law (you may well know this already but please bear with me) which states that the red-shift in light arriving here in our solar system from distant galaxies is proportional to their observed distance. This idea was first formulated by Edwin Hubble and Milton Humason (he often gets forgotten) way back in 1929 after nearly ten years of careful and studious observation. However it was not Hubble himself who suggested the concept of the big bang but actually it was a Georges LeMaitre (1894-1966) who actually came up with the idea that the universe had expanded from a single cosmic event, which is now called the big bang so labeled and mockingly at that by the great Fred Hoyle, the main proponent of the steady state theory. Of course it was very much in LeMaitre's interests for the universe to have begun in this way, he being a Catholic Priest after all it did fit rather nicely with the idea of god's creation.

Ergo big bang is technically a religious concept.

[Bentastic]

I understand what you guys that don't believe in God mean. Yet, I am a Christian, but I do believe in Science too. I think they can work together. For example Scientists say that the Big Bang started the Universe, whilst I believe that the Big Bang did start off the Universe, but God was the one who started it. I don't believe God as being a creature, but as a powerful and conscious force. We have proven that Jesus was around, but I'm not sure he was the Son of God even though I attend a Church of England Church every Sunday.

I also believe that there is no way to prove God, as I believe he is omnipresent (always been there and always will be there), humans may die out as a species but God won't. I believe that the Bible and Science can work together, as the Bible (I believe) was not meant to be taken literally, but as a metaphor - just like many books were written as in those days.

So, I am Christian and I do believe in Science!

[M Paul Lloyd]

And I would not wish to deny you the comfort of your belief Bentastic (oh and welcome to the forum. ) and in some ways I am inclined to envy you but for me sadly belief is not enough.

[Shadowwolf]

Hullo and welcome aboard Mr Bentastic

Well I think that anyone can believe in something and still for the most part work with the tools of science, though it does seem to me that these tools are invariably suspended when it comes to whatever belief it is that is held.

I think they can work together.

That I would disagree on, I don't think they have anything to do with each other at all, one operates on observation and empirical evidence whereas the other is rooted in belief without that empirical evidence. Therefore any system which has an unknown force, operating upon its own whims unbound by any physical laws as we know them, can have no place in a system that has rules, that builds knowledge by repeated observation of the same result.

We have proven that Jesus was around...

Actually that's not quite so certain, alas that discussion is a historical matter and not for here, maybe the Darkside.

I believe that the Bible and Science can work together...

Again I would have to go with a flat out disagreement, a book of multiple authors, multiple scribes, hagiographies and midrash over many centuries is of no scientific use, some historic merit - though not as a literal document - yes, but nothing of any scientific value or relevance to science.

Given the OP of what it might take to convince a non-believer, is there any way that you could be convinced through science that there was no deity?

[nemisis39]

welcome along indeed bentastic hope you enjoy our little forum.

The problem i have with science and religeon working together, sooner or later one will either prove or disprove (depending on which camp you belong to ) the other's claims, then all hell will break loose ( pardon the pun ) But i will agree with you on this point

as the Bible (I believe) was not meant to be taken literally, but as a metaphor - just like many books were written as in those days

As a book yes but what if there was a catastrophy and all but a few of the human race was obliterated and the bible was lost. along with all other books apart from one (pick your own title ) and this was preached out as a new religeon for the next 2,000 odd years, it wouldnt make that god any more real than the one that is worshiped today, or would it .

[M Paul Lloyd]

Indeed and had The Great Library of Alexander not been lost who knowswhat 'books' our lives might now be based upon?