BBC Focus Magazine

[MikeG]

Researcher Robert Hastings has urged new research on UFO's. This is an interesting extract from the story. I found this on a Reuters web site, and followed it up with an interesting quote from RedOrbit (can't say I've ever heard of them, but I'm posting their commentary as it supplements Reuters story nicely).

According to the veterans, including two retired colonels, the still-classified incidents involved the sudden appearance of a mysterious aerial craft that briefly hovered over ICBM sites and sometimes disrupted the missiles' guidance and control systems; during one December 1980 case, a disc-shaped UFO sent down laser-like beams into a nukes storage depot.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/ ... RN20110620

Following the conference in Boulder, Hastings said:

“Among the 130 veterans I have interviewed are nuclear missile launch officers who report UFOs monitoring and even disabling their weapons. To dismiss these accounts as mere fantasies or fabrications is to suggest that those who held the fate of the entire planet in their hands during the Cold War were dangerously demented or otherwise untrustworthy. Surely, this was not the case. Similar incidents have been revealed by Soviet military veterans.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/entertainm ... y_of_ufos/

[M Paul Lloyd]

Well in my experience quite a lot of studies have been carried out over the years, but the truth is, just like witchcraft the closer one tries to get to any actually evidence for the existence of UFO's the less one finds, as they just end up having a perfectly rational explanation.

I know, I've tried.

[MikeG]

...they just end up having a perfectly rational explanation.

I won't argue that point MPL, as a lot of these sightings have been discredited over time. However, in this case, the story is interesting on its own merits, given that the witnesses are trained to identify and track atmospheric and space based objects as a shield against sneak attacks.

To dismiss these accounts as mere fantasies or fabrications is to suggest that those who held the fate of the entire planet in their hands during the Cold War were dangerously demented or otherwise untrustworthy.

If I hadn't picked up this story in Reuters, I wouldn't have bothered posting. I trust they checked the story independently before publishing.

[Shadowwolf]

...given that the witnesses are trained to identify and track atmospheric and space based objects as a shield against sneak attacks.

Those in NORAD and other such C&C or early warning installations might be but these guys are the launch crews and don't do the tracking stuff.

There's a lot wrong with this claim:

The military sources are anonymous and can thus make stuff up or even be made up.

As poor as they are, these anonymous guys couldn't manage some images of this behemoth?

Among the 130 vets he's spoken too, only some were involved in the nuclear forces and his contention that because they were in such a position they could not possibly become misinformed or believe in non-existing beings is absurd; how many believe in god?

Why would an ET craft park over random silo bases and keep doing so since the eigthies, interstellar travel capable beings want to really closely eyeball technology they should be fairly familiar with?

Pretty much anything can be attributed to 'still classified' incidents that can always remain conveniently classified, and if anything were released but with a mundane story then conspiracy can quickly be intoned.

Ex-military peddling UFO stories are ten a penny, they're everywhere and all given to extravagant, unverifiable claims that presumably breach any oaths of secrecy they've taken and I don't ever see them so freely babbling about anything that could get their asses slung in jail.

[MikeG]

As poor as they are, these anonymous guys couldn't manage some images ..

Let's not forget the period. No iPhones at the time Also, I'm pretty sure that cameras were forbidden to prevent spying, or other non approved distribution of images of a highly sensitive site.

Why would an ET craft park over random silo bases and keep doing so since the eigthies, interstellar travel capable beings want to really closely eyeball technology they should be fairly familiar with.

Chances are they wouldn't be spying for their own benefit to gain technology, but to see how far we've come with ours Reminds me of the movie Prometheus . Maybe when we become too advanced, they'll want to send us back to the stone age

[Shadowwolf]

Let's not forget the period. No iPhones at the time...

Well the most recent one involving a Zeppelin like craft was just last year so the tech was readily available and these anonymous folks don't seem too bothered with protocols or orders as they allegedly freely babble about that which they're not supposed to.

Chances are they wouldn't be spying for their own benefit to gain technology, but to see how far we've come with ours

By parking over them in full view instead of eyeballing them from high unobtrusive orbit, and doing this over decades? These same craft who are alleged to go out of their way to remain hidden? The same who could presumably hack our networks and find out without ever dropping by in person? Why not send in ground teams or robots, why is it always something that leaves no evidence? I don't think there's any reasonable purpose for any visitor to be physically hovering over random nuclear sites but it makes a good story and gives some "researchers" something to do.

Reminds me of the movie Prometheus . Maybe when we become too advanced, they'll want to send us back to the stone age

GAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!

[Willxx]

given the continued number of claims over the years and the fact that the incidents don't seem to be reducing in number it does seem a little incredulous that even nowadays no-one, anywhere, has managed to get a clear HD recording of any actual UFO which has received widespread acceptance as being an "unknown" object of alien construct.

i know you can claim "cloaking" technology but cloaking tech to the extent that it turns decent images into low res pictures of hubcaps?

[MikeG]

...it does seem a little incredulous that even nowadays no-one, anywhere, has managed to get a clear HD recording of any actual UFO...

I tend to agree. I'm sure that most of these sightings are by crackpots, or people trying to get their allotted "15 minutes of fame". However, having said that, let me relate a story from my childhood. When I was about 12 years old, and my brother 6, he came running into the house flushed and excited. He described and made a crude drawing of a long "rocket-ship" which flew over his school, accompanied by several "round rocket-ships". His class had seen these while outside during a break, and the "rocket-ships" had been seen by his teachers as well. There is no telling what it was that he saw that day. He doesn't have any recollection of the incident at all nowadays, given his age at the time, but I've always wondered what it was that he saw. He may not have been the best eyewitness given his age, but his description matches the objects that are occasionally reported. These cigar shaped craft may not be extraterrestrial, but given this incident that I've described, I'm fairly certain that at least some of these reportings have some basis in fact.

[Shadowwolf]

I tend to agree. I'm sure that most of these sightings are by crackpots, or people trying to get their allotted "15 minutes of fame".

Don't forget the many who misidentify known craft / phenomena through lack of knowledge then subsequently and inadvertently embellish the event with additional details often polluted by pop-culture.

As for the childhood event, if it was not just imagination a sudden and rapid overflight of military aircraft as viewed by someone completely unfamiliar with such is plausible. As so many of these events are vague, involve vaguely described craft, have a long history that could be the actual source and that a six-year old is not the most dependable witness, similarities of stories are incidental.

[MikeG]

As for the childhood event, if it was not just imagination a sudden and rapid overflight of military aircraft as viewed by someone completely unfamiliar with such is plausible.

I agree with you on that point SW. But what I find interesting, is that people that I know (teachers and children), witnessed something that looked very real to them. Its certainly not a case of urban legend. So although the group did not think it was an airplane (it was described as not having wings), that doesn't necessarily mean it was a UFO, My feeling is that they most likely witnessed a test launch of a missile, hence its resemblance to a rocket. The point here is that not all such events are reported by crackpots. Even presidents and astronauts have witnessed such unexplainable events. Jimmy Carter described what he saw before becoming president.

"When I was back as a peanut farmer in southwest Georgia, I and about 25 others saw something in the air that changed colors and was round and came and left," former President Jimmy Carter said in an interview with CNN’s John Roberts on American Morning. "We couldn't figure out what it was."

But while he couldn't identify the object, Carter said he doesn't think it was space aliens.

"It was unidentified as far as we were concerned, but I think it's impossible in my opinion, some people disagree, to have space people from other planets or other stars to come to us - I don't think that's possible," he said.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... xperience/

Other, more qualified witnesses, are astronauts like Buzz Aldrin. This You Tube excerpt is certainly thought provoking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI

When running for president, Carter promised to shed lights on these events, he later reneged. This ups the possibility that most of these events are likely secret test craft, of a very terrestrial origin. The Apollo 11 incident doesn't necessarily contradict that statement, as these test craft may be "above NASA's pay grade, as they say in the movies.

[Lateralman]

If ET had the superior intellect to build a craft to cross the vast ocean of space to travel here, why would he bother to hide around corners from us?

Why not hide from the birds, the fish, the insects, sheep, cows, or me aunty Nellie’s budgerigar...

[MikeG]

If ET had the superior intellect to build a craft to cross the vast ocean of space to travel here, why would he bother to hide around corners from us?

No-one can claim that ET has travelled here yet. But if he has, I can imagine a scenario like a National Geographic photographer using a hide to observe a family of chimps.

[M Paul Lloyd]

What always amuses me about photographers 'hiding' from anything is that they really are deluding themselves. Ok they may not be overtly visible but they will certainly smell and make noises that the observed animal will be absolutely aware of and whilst some highly advanced ET may posses extremely effective cloaking devices I think we would catch on.

[Shadowwolf]

I agree with you on that point SW. But what I find interesting, is that people that I know (teachers and children), witnessed something that looked very real to them.

Sorry, thought that the other witnesses were just part of your brothers story. In light of that I'd expect adults to have a passing knowledge of jet aircraft and hence your missile hypotheses sounds more plausible. Was it ever fully reported do you know?

Regards Buzz, well I've seen that and I've seen other interviews where they did not edit out his categorical denial of seeing alien ships or anything under independent control, and that it was most likely some space junk. Carter may have reneged on his promise as many politicians do and particularly when what he wanted to expose were almost certainly matters of national security.

If ET had the superior intellect to build a craft to cross the vast ocean of space to travel here, why would he bother to hide around corners from us?

Any number of reasons but these would preclude events like parking your ship over nuclear sites, buzzing towns 'n' people and regularly crashing across the globe. If they were observing then I'm sure they could manage an effective hide but like I mentioned, this would probably mean significantly less missions in full view as are alleged to take place. They wouldn't hide from animals because animals won't notice either way and thus there'd be no need, besides hiding from us is effectively hiding from everything anyway.

[MikeG]

Sorry, thought that the other witnesses were just part of your brothers story. In light of that I'd expect adults to have a passing knowledge of jet aircraft and hence your missile hypotheses sounds more plausible. Was it ever fully reported do you know?

This event happened long before the advent of the Internet. As far as I know, no official report was ever made, and I only ever saw it discussed amongst the group whose children were witnesses, or who knew the teachers. I never heard anybody use the term UFO back then and I mentioned it only because the description of the "cigar" shaped craft in our discussion reminds me of that event.

[Lateralman]

Really, then their 'cloaking device' is bleedin’ rubbish if it keeps on giving us all a sneak peek over the past fifty years.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Er.........? That was rather what I was driving at Lateral' ......... point is we have NO evidence of anything but delusional clap-trap and mythical nonsense.

[Shadowwolf]

As far as I know, no official report was ever made,

I see, essentially lost to the mists of time then.

But back to the OP, methinks it's just some lad trying to drum up interest and thus funding for where he's painted himself into and nuclear sites with their attendant taboo make for a gripping angle. Like most that's gone before it rests on hearsay and assertions, you'd think that with the obvious and highly questionable nature of this form of evidence over and over, it would simply be dismissed as useless.

[MikeG]

I see, essentially lost to the mists of time then.

One more report rotting in the archives wouldn't have made much difference . At that time, I don't think it ever crossed anybody's mind that they what they witnessed was not the "rocket-ship" that they had pointed out to the children in the schoolyard. At any rate, I think most "normal" people then (and now) would be embarrassed to publicly claim that they may have seen an extraterrestrial craft, and would be reluctant to file such a report. So its not suprising that in such a small group of people, nobody stepped forward.

[Nails]

Isn't it funny how modern-day mysteries seem to involve UFOs and aliens, when a hundred or so years ago they involved witches, gods, demons, spririts & and magic?

When people cannot explain things they are adept at making up explanations, and cultural references form a major part of this - and this neatly fits in with how we suspect that our memories work.