BBC Focus Magazine

[MikeG]

If we manipulated this gene in chimpanzees, would we end up with a "near-human", sentient being?

Mice with a single missing gene have brains that are 35 percent larger than normal, a new study found. Though they have big brains the mice are as healthy and happy as normal mice.

The researchers created these mutant mice to learn more about Snf2l, which is known to play a role in folding up and organizing the cell's genetic material, and in turning genes on and off. They found that the mutant mice were completely normal, except that they had larger brains, more cells in all areas of the brain, and more actively dividing brain stem cells.

http://www.livescience.com/20336-resear ... rains.html

[M Paul Lloyd]

Probably not because brain size is not the whole story but rather how well one uses the brain you have.

For example some of our early, but less succesful, ancestors (such as Neanderthals) had larger brains than Homo Sapiens but it evidently didn't serve them all that well in the long run.

[MikeG]

You're right MPL. Brain size itself is not everything. But in this case, the absence of the gene leads to a slower development of the brain, more convolutions in the folds, and more densely packed cells. So its a quality upgrade. And although a similar experiment in chimps might not make them our equals, but it just might give them more awareness and problem solving abilities. It might be the equivalent of our own evolutionary kickstart.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Quite possibly MikeG, I recall reading somewhere of a theory that eating brain tissue may have had a similar effect on our development?
No idea if it it based on any reliable research though.

[Shadowwolf]

I reckon that we just stumbled upon some hyper-dimensional beings manifestation in our realm but I digress.

If we manipulated this gene in chimpanzees, would we end up with a "near-human", sentient being?

As Mr M says there is more to it than merely brain size but I'm not sure that it would be the greatest idea in the verse to be trying to bring primates towards our level, may not work out for the best.

[MikeG]

As Mr M says there is more to it than merely brain size but I'm not sure that it would be the greatest idea in the verse to be trying to bring primates towards our level, may not work out for the best.

One day, all low cost manufacturing countries will have raised their cost of production to the level of G25. At that point we will be looking for cheap labour again, and smart chimps may be the way to go.

Here's hoping we don't have a budding "Caesar" in the mutated chimps population.

Seriously though, both Russia (under Stalin), and the U.S. reportedly tried to create human-chimp hybrids to use as "super-soldiers".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov

[Shadowwolf]

At that point we will be looking for cheap labour again,

That's what I'd be afraid of, they won't be human thus the thinking will go that therefore they don't have rights and can be treated as tools, living but tools nonetheless. That won't work out well and won't reflect particularly well on us either.

[MikeG]

...they won't be human thus the thinking will go that therefore they don't have rights and can be treated as tools, living but tools nonetheless. That won't work out well and won't reflect particularly well on us either.

Is this the first humanzee?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... NHTDqIXCe_

[Shadowwolf]

Nope, later tests indicated a chimp with some genetic variations from your common garden variety chimp. Might be a rare sub-type or a random mutation but it's not a hybrid.

[MikeG]

Nope, later tests indicated a chimp with some genetic variations from your common garden variety chimp. Might be a rare sub-type or a random mutation but it's not a hybrid.

You're right SW. It seems quite definite that he's no hybrid, although it seems there was controversy at some point about whether he had 47 or 48 chromosomes. He's a mutant, with significant differences in his DNA structure. However, it just goes to show how a mutant can arise in a single generation, which may (or may not) offer a significant survival advantage, which will drive his entire species to evolve and differentiate itself. Looking at him reminds me of "Lucy", our oldest known ancestor. It could be interesting to see if his offspring retain his genetic mutations. Unfortunately, it seems he won't have anything to do with female chimps. He will only try to "get it on" with human females