BBC Focus Magazine

[MikeG]

I wonder if he has any clients left since he went public with his claims of participating in time travel experiments. You have to admit that he is quite well spoken and sounds very convincing though

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/2 ... 38216.html

[Shadowwolf]

Oh you just know Tesla is going to appear somewhere in all of that...

I don't know about clients but well spoken or no I doubt such heroic levels of crazy on display will make for particularly good PR for his continuing practice; not that he appears to have one as peddling this tale seems to be the main focus.

My only question is which one is more out of touch with reality, him or Webre?

[MikeG]

Maybe this guy plans on becoming the next L. Ron Hubbard. He seems too lucid to be actually crazy.

[Shadowwolf]

It's when their calm and lucid whilst relating high fantasy that you really should start worrying

Fair chance that they have convinced themselves this stuff is real, can't see such fringe lunacy as being particularly more lucrative than what they were doing, as they're well out there even by the standards of those disposed towards seeing ET in UFOs and such.

[M Paul Lloyd]

These people all seem a tad delusional if you ask me, I mean time travel is a wonderful concept and great fodder for the realms of science fiction but despite it being theoretically possible it really isn't is it.

[MikeG]

Oh you just know Tesla is going to appear somewhere in all of that...

If you said that before reading the article SW, I'm impressed.

...I mean time travel is a wonderful concept and great fodder for the realms of science fiction but despite it being theoretically possible it really isn't is it.

Maybe time travel is possible through parallel dimensions Which are somehow predetermined to have identical paths as our own. So maybe there is such a thing as fate. It may be somehow be related to quantum entanglement (Einsteins spooky action at a distance, with Time delay )

Any thoughts on that, or am I just as crazy as Mr Basiago?

[...]

because something is theoretically possible doesnt mean its real

[M Paul Lloyd]

Any thoughts on that, or am I just as crazy as Mr Basiago?

Well I wouldn't say you were crazy but as @@ so rightly points out just because something is theoretically possible it doesn't make it real, and thats the problem with time travel, if it is possible where is the evidence to support the theory?

For example no time travellers turned up at The Time Travelers Convention
http://web.mit.edu/adorai/timetraveler/
which could be viewed as just a bit of mischevious humour but even so throughout all time did not one single time traveller get wind of the invitation and make an appearance? No they didn't and that suggests to me that either time travel isn't possible ..... or time travellers are really boring??
And even if time travel is carefully policed by some sort of Time Police Force (Sapphire and Steel come to mind, anyone remember them?)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078682/
well surely the odd rogue traveller would get through the net and in so doing be constantly changing the timeline, and although life can seem to chuck a few unexpected curved balls at times I don't actually think its as fundamental as actual shifts across alternative realities?

Or is it?

I hold with the notion that although time travel is theoretically possible it is prevented from being actually posible by fundamental laws which we do not yet fully understand.

[MikeG]

I hold with the notion that although time travel is theoretically possible it is prevented from being actually posible by fundamental laws which we do not yet fully understand.

Any thoughts on the notion that we are living a predefined path, thinking that we have free choice, while in fact everything has already been mapped out beforehand? I can't imagine the possibility of time travel in a world where fate has not already determined the outcome of an event. My reasoning is that actual time travel in a single dimension would imply that matter can be reanimated and reassembled, something I see as unlikely. If there were movement between dimensions however, with events in one dimension lagging behind the events of another parallel dimension, then for time travel to be even theoretically possible, the events in both dimensions would have to be identical. Which means that our fate has already been mapped out beforehand, and free will is an illussion.

[M Paul Lloyd]

As I see it MikeG time is like a river and once it has gone downhill, despite any minor eddys, whirlpools, slack water or the like that might give the impression of time being flexible, it isn't going back the same way again. It might be able to run more quickly or almost come to a standstill but it will inevitably find its way to the lowest point possible.
I don't see it as being pre-planned and we can, at any point, change the future by altering our actions in the present. I accept that some actions will have more impact than others but I do think that the future is not pre-planned and waiting for us.
It is, in effect, linear in nature and once you have passed any given point in time you cannot go back to something that no longer exists and as the future hasn't happened yet you can't go there either.

[MikeG]

On the whole MPL, I agree with you. In a mono-dimensional universe, I can't see how we could travel either backwards or forwards. I find it hard to imagine how a multi-dimensional universe could exist as well, as I can't fathom something next to me which I can't see or interact with. My argument is, if the. String theorists are right, and there are infinite numbers of dimensions existing side by side, and these were the gateways to "travel" back and forth in time (not within our own dimension, but in another identical dimension whose events either precede or supersede our own), then we can somehow call this time travel, as events there would affect our own dimension.

This is the only way I could imagine time travel, and for it to work, that would necessitate a ripple on effect. If I die in this universe, I would have to die under identical circumstances in all other dimensions for continuity to exist.

[M Paul Lloyd]

It is often suggested that Strings exist (theoretically speaking) within a multiverse system but I wonder if this is overcomplicating the whole thing and perhaps they could achieve much the same results via something a little less complicated consisting perhaps of just one other dimension where the laws of our universe, such as time, do not apply?

This would unfortunatly deny you of that multiverse alternative to travel to and the idea of using this other dimension to travel to our past or future is stretching the boundaries of logic if you ask me.

[Shadowwolf]

Maybe time travel is possible through parallel dimensions...

In a multi-verse of all possible outcomes from all possible choices it is really more akin to dimensional travel than time as the place you departed from still exists unchanged along with all other possibilities, at best you might create a few more by adding new possible outcomes but none would vanish. Nor would events created in one cause changes in others, each should be isolated as the dimension in which none of those other events occurred. The only way you could travel in time would be a pseudo time travel by ending up in dimensions were change is slower and the Middle Ages is as far as they've currently got; if such a scenario is a reasonable possibility. Of course a likely system is that there are many possibilities for any given point in time but only one is chosen / pursued and all the others and possibilities arising from them etc. never come to pass and do not exist separately.

Regards predetermination, so long as there is no manner of travel into the future I don't reckon there is any issue with free will presented.

I can't imagine the possibility of time travel in a world where fate has not already determined the outcome of an event.

All other considerations aside, if it were possible a predetermined universe should present no obstacle, the time travel then being a part of that predetermined or unchangeable verse. Bit like the Terminator universe in which Skynet is built because of time travel and thus any attempt to change / halt this is doomed to failure as it's all locked in and everyone is just playing a part, even Skynet.

For example no time travellers turned up at The Time Travelers Convention

Never liked that idea, I mean why? Just because someone creates a time travelers convention it does not follow that the very existence of the convention would therefore compel time travelers to appear and reveal themselves, or if they don't there is no such thing as time travel.

If you said that before reading the article SW, I'm impressed. [...] or am I just as crazy as Mr Basiago?

If they'd mentioned some of the techno-babble earlier I may have, as it was, twas just something in the recesses of my mind and not particularly articulated. As for crazy as, no I think it's safe to say you're not that far beyond the pale yet

[MikeG]

In a multi-verse of all possible outcomes from all possible choices it is really more akin to dimensional travel than time as the place you departed from still exists unchanged along with all other possibilities, at best you might create a few more by adding new possible outcomes but none would vanish.

The quantum theorists would all agree with you on this one SW. But for me to be able to accept time travel as a possibility, then we need to add another caveat. We would have to have a multi-verse of all possible outcomes occurring an infinite number of times, with some outcomes preceding and others superseding the events of our own reality. So we can't travel to another branch, where events are different than those in our own reality, as we have to have (in my mind at least) consistent outcomes. So if we do manage to enter another dimension and change events there, then the change has to ripple through all the linked dimensions.

Does this sound like the basis for a good sci-fi plot yet ?

[MikeG]

It is often suggested that Strings exist (theoretically speaking) within a multiverse system but I wonder if this is overcomplicating the whole thing and perhaps they could achieve much the same results via something a little less complicated consisting perhaps of just one other dimension where the laws of our universe, such as time, do not apply?

This has the makings of another great topic. What exactly is time, if not just a recording of events that have already taken place. What would a universe without time imply? Would this mean that everything is static and unchanging? Or that immortality is factored into the structure of this universe?

[M Paul Lloyd]

Indeed yes MikeG and as I see it time is a man-made concept to measure the manifestation of movement, be that great galactic bodies, star clusters, solar systems or even right down to the smallest subatomic particles, and if all movement were to stop which would be the case if all the energy was lost from the universe and you could achieve absolute zero degrees Kelvin then,in theory, all movement and presumably time, would stop? Possibly?

[Shadowwolf]

Does this sound like the basis for a good sci-fi plot yet

Oh hell yeah

We would have to have a multi-verse of all possible outcomes occurring an infinite number of times, [...] then the change has to ripple through all the linked dimensions.

The main issue with this is that it is a construct for which we would have no reason to suppose could exist or be beholden to the rules indicated and nothing to predicate those rules upon. Why would we be restricted to only verses that virtually mirror our own, what is the threshold for similarity and why would any change necessarily impinge upon other verses? The latter caveat is also seemingly impossible in a multi-verse of infinite possible outcomes as every variant has already been accounted for, including verse hopping meddlers, there will still be the one where no meddling took place along with all that spring from that verse.

But it's all abstract really, we've no evidence that there are multiple verses existing alongside our own for every potential outcome, so we don't even have a starting point from which to start applying restrictions to how such a system would operate.

What would a universe without time imply?

As I understand it, there would be nothing, not just empty space but nothing, no verse, zip.

[MikeG]

Why would we be restricted to only verses that virtually mirror our own...?

If we were to move freely among verses with different outcomes, it wouldn't be time travel. For instance, if The USSR hadn't backed down during the Cuban missile crisis in a parallel verse and there was a nuclear exchange, there would be no past to travel to in that verse. Events as small as a car accident could radically change the outcome of a verse. If its to be considered time travel, we need to have a mirror to go back and forward to. And once we change an event, it has to affect all similar verses as if it were a single verse, otherwise continuity is lost and would lead to a "paradox" as they say in sci-fi

[M Paul Lloyd]

But if every single possible outcome of every possible event extended off into a different reality the potential alternative universes created would be incomprehensivley infinate and the differences between them would be difficult to define................................ This is straying in the realms of Sci-Fi isn't it.

[Shadowwolf]

...there would be no past to travel to in that verse.

Actually there would be, it would just look a hell of a lot different.

As you say moving between verse after verse is not time travel unless you actually go into the past and effectively rewind everything and all possible outcomes to whatever point you halt at. However, even if you then change something you shouldn't have this will have no bearing on any subsequent outcomes, because there will always be the alternate outcome where you did not do whatever and therefore changed nothing leaving all the unchanged strands playing out as they had done before.

Here's my take on time travel given what we know and my understanding of that. There is one verse, this one and whilst there may be other dimensions squirreled away, ours is the only one in which the structures and life like us can exist. In one scenario to travel back in time is to effectively rewind everything erasing / unmaking history as you pass it and therefore there is no going forward as nothing is there to travel to; to re-order the entire universe to an earlier stage does, however, seem to be a feat beyond any mechanism or capability to achieve. As that seems unlikely another option is that the entire thing exists like one big film and we're in the bit passing in front of the back-light and everything that happens is effectively predetermined. Assuming you could somehow travel in time, it would merely be an event already in the script and nothing could actually be changed; your only reward being the knowledge that everything you do is beyond your control, a marionette on a cosmic stage no one is watching. But what would stop you from going back and radically altering something or killing your earlier self and thereby creating a paradox? As travel could create such situations the answer would seem to be that either travel back is simply not possible or that the script ensures any such actions have been already accounted for, and any attempts to murder yourself or folks like Pol Pot all fail in some manner.

Or there is the notion of the multi-verse with all possible outcomes continually generating new verses - something that seems to entail the spontaneous creation of a universe of matter in an advanced state of order each time and thus looking a tad preposterous. Traveling back if even possible is a one way trip as one is left with an endless sea of possible futures wherever one stops and no way to choose any one over another. Making radical changes will only result in you now inhabiting one of those alternate possibilities and the futures that alternate allows for, in fact the very act of traveling back if such were possible would technically put you in a slightly altered verse anyway. This would seem to mean that it's also likely predetermined, that is, your travel was an already existing possible strand in the multitude of possibilities and this version of you is just following that script. Thus time travel would only occur in the strands that allowed for it and still necessitates a predetermined meta-verse.

Whether a single strand or a multi-verse, for there to be time travel would seem to entail a preordained system and can only exist if it's in the script. This would also appear to render time travel as effectively useless.

As I see it, time travel requires certain criteria to enable it and rests on these assumptions of what lies beyond our knowledge. I think we inhabit this verse, the present, the frame under the back-light is it, there is no rewinding as the task is impossible and the future is an endless sea of reasonable possibilities that, however, are no more than ephemeral probabilities of which only one is ever manifested while all the others which never truly existed vanish from contention. Time travel here is simply not possible.

Anyone still with me..., am I still with me...