BBC Focus Magazine

[MrIsaksson]

Hello,

It was over 15 years since I did my phd and left science for the corporate world.

One of things I always wondered about when I did my PhD and even more afterwards is how much short term behaviour annual grants etc fosters.

I did my phd in Sweden so i can only say how it worked there at the time but most grants where only annual and to get a extension or new grants you needed to show publications result.

I can understand that you need to measure something or how else can you judge the effectiveness of the money spent.

But I always wondered if this was driving short term behaviour and potentially missing the ground breaking stuff...

Whats people's view and thought?

[Shadowwolf]

Might encourage only short term research if by publish you mean more than just a report of work to date.

[KingPhillip]

I would place a tremendous burden on the grant application form. How demanding and comprehensive is it? Are scheduled reports and benchmarks included? In other words, is the application well thought out?

The other shared burden rests on the grantor. A paper pusher? A number cruncher? A money manager? Experience with how science research is done? Scientifically-minded if the application form is comprehensive?

Each institution has its own personality, and missions to match. Corporate r+d, non-profits, governments and others also have different sense of urgencies to drive their missions.

I would say, then, the landscape is heterogeneous. It's just the funding is coming from the same limited number of resources. And a few of these resources require a reasonable return on the "investment". This then gives the impression short-term gains are desired and fostered.

[Flakkarin]

I think at the earlier stages of a career the grants are shorter-term, but when you get more established there are all sorts of crazy awards and grants and such that allow you to be a little more "creative" and do some of the bigger things. At least that's my general impression. But age isn't the thing that gets you to those upper echelons: you have to be really good.

[MrIsaksson]

But age isn't the thing that gets you to those upper echelons: you have to be really good.

Yep, that was the reason I left science to be honest I saw all these PhD students and researchers all fighting for 1 or 2 permanent positions (professor or ass. professors). Many of them considerably more dedicated and smarter than me.
So I called it quits and left for the corporate world instead, never regretted it.

[Lateralman]

No regrets? Without wishing to be rude, then why are you posting on here?

[Shadowwolf]

You may not have wished it but you certainly have managed it.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Well speaking as someone who never managed to finish anything in the world of academia, (and wandering a tad off topic I fear ) I have to admit that although I never aspired to the heady heights of aerospace research I must admit that not having a 'full' degree was actually an advantage in the post RAF job market because my current employer could not afford to pay anyone fully qualified and I was suitably desperate, so it proved mutually beneficial. Over the years my previous contemporaries in the aerospace industries went on to do greater things, but I have to say that when the crunch came they had much further to fall and indeed in some cases never actually recovered, and on the whole I have actually done slightly better than many of them.

[M Paul Lloyd]

No regrets? Without wishing to be rude, then why are you posting on here?

(I had intended to include this in the previous post but forgot, sorry)
So..................... given that I am in a similar position to MrIsaksson, albeit somewhat less qualified, what is your point exactly Lateralman?
You are surely not suggesting that people end up on our forum because their lives are sad and unfullfilled... ?

[MrIsaksson]

I kind hope that though I am no longer a full time researcher I am allowed to post in a forum about popular science? Or are you saying that unless you are full time post doc you can’t post here?

My decision to change my career doesn’t automatically mean that all my interest in all thing science just stopped, quite the opposite. You know people can have interest in things outside of the sphere of what they do for a living.
I suspect you will find that there are a lot of people reading and posting here that aren’t full time researchers
I really cant see what my career choice has to do with my eligibility to post here?

[MrIsaksson]

No regrets? Without wishing to be rude, then why are you posting on here?

Or are you saying that unless you are full time post doc you can’t post here?

I just reread Laterman's post and I now see a loop hole and as long as my life is full of regrets I can continue to post here

Puh, no regrets about not being a researcher/lecturer at some university but I am sure I have some regrets about some girls I should have taken out etc but didnt. So I am sure I can muster enough regrets to allow me to continue to post

[M Paul Lloyd]

I kind hope that though I am no longer a full time researcher I am allowed to post in a forum about popular science? Or are you saying that unless you are full time post doc you can’t post here?

My decision to change my career doesn’t automatically mean that all my interest in all thing science just stopped, quite the opposite. You know people can have interest in things outside of the sphere of what they do for a living.
I suspect you will find that there are a lot of people reading and posting here that aren’t full time researchers
I really cant see what my career choice has to do with my eligibility to post here?

Good heavens Mrlsaksson, never will anyone ever be denied the chance to post on here based upon scientific credentials or 'regrets' of any kind, at least so long as I draw breath and wield an Admin' account, if that were not the case.... well I wouldn't be here for starters.

No, all you need to post on this forum is an interest in science and technology, a thirst for knowledge might prove useful though not essential, and a sense of humour can be very helpful but you don't even have to be a reader of Focus magazine, although it would be nice if you were.

[Lateralman]

Sorry if that came across as being a bit abrasive. The thing is I have read many of your posts in the past and can see that you have an inquisitive mind and good ideas.

That is why from simply posting on here I think you do regret not following a career path in science. It is never too late.

[MrIsaksson]

Sorry if that came across as being a bit abrasive. The thing is I have read many of your posts in the past and can see that you have an inquisitive mind and good ideas.

That is why from simply posting on here I think you do regret not following a career path in science. It is never too late.

Dont worry Laterman, it just caught me in a bad moment.

I love the theory of science, it is the lab work I don’t find particularly exciting. I managed to maintain my attention to get my PhD but that is obviously just the first step.
I much rather sit from the comfort of my sofa and marvel at the discoveries in the latest issue of Focus or Scientific American or similar and try to understand the science behind it

[M Paul Lloyd]

And that's the very essence of what I hope we are about on this forum.
Its for people who have a shared interest in science, to revel in a sense of wonderment and awe over what we are actually achieving as a species, an antidote for all that seems bad and unworthy in the world of political and religious disorder that seems to dominate our news these days. No?

[KingPhillip]

History has shown there were plenty of politics and dogma governing the practice of science. That science has risen above most of them is awe-inspiring. Meanwhile, politics and dogma remain intransigent, or worse, devolving into h. neanderthalis resolutions.