BBC Focus Magazine

[Nails]

Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern

Puzzling results from Cern, home of the LHC, have confounded physicists - because it appears subatomic particles have exceeded the speed of light.

Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early.

The result - which threatens to upend a century of physics - will be put online for scrutiny by other scientists.

In the meantime, the group says it is being very cautious about its claims

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

[M Paul Lloyd]

Oh dear it seems the LHC is causing more headaches than solving problems.

[Dash Lightning]

Exactly how much physics would be upended completely if this gets proven definitively?

[MikeG]

The odds that the speed of light has been breached are slim, or this behavior would have been observed by now. The alternative explanation however, is a lot more exiting. Maybe the particles passed through a dimensional shortcut to arrive ahead of time. Is this the first observation of "Subspace" or "Hyperspace" (choose your sic-fi universe).

[KingPhillip]

As with Usain Bolt and other speedsters, a record isn't broken if it was wind assisted.

[M Paul Lloyd]

I'm guessing that the scientists involved have already allowed for this but, I'm left wondering if the spacetime inside the Earth (as these particles were sent throught the ground) is the same as expected, after all the deeper you go the greater mass of rock above effectively cancels out some of the gravity from below (at the core it would be effectivly nil) thus reducing the distortion of spacetime.??

[...]

this is exciting news, ill go with Mike G on this one, i do remember something about tachyons travelling faster than C. lets face it, we've all been waiting for something like this to happen

[M Paul Lloyd]

I think that the entire world of physics could well be about to turn itself completley upside down.

It is exciting but also rather frightening, especially if your entire career was built on something which might suddenly turn out to be fundamentally wrong.

[...]

maybe not, einstein's relativity never did newton too much harm really even though it was a complete rewrite, i the physics we use now seems pretty robust, it may well help quantum physics along ref mike g

[M Paul Lloyd]

But what it does show, at least it appears to show, that information can be sent from one point to another faster than was originally thought, and I have to say I think thats pretty fundamental.

If it is right the current formulation of special relativity is probably wrong, which is awkward to say the least because the theory has been tested so many times and has not been disproved.
It is a major cornerstone of our understanding of the universe.

The speed of light is also the basis of cause and effect, so if that is not always the case well then the basic laws of physics might have to be rewritten. I could even be another nail in the coffin of big bang theory.

[Nails]

What if these particles are actually moving at the universal speed limit, and light just happens to move a little slower?

Is this mathematically possible?

To me, a non-physicist, it seems more plausible than any other possibility that has been thworn around recently. But I could be wrong.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Well Nails you may well have hit the..... er............. nail squarely on the head there.

Thing is if the speed of light is not the universal limit well it pretty much undermines everything that is being claimed of light itself and perhaps even how it transends the depths of time seemingly unchanged due to it possesing the ultimate universal velocity. Although thats probably just wishful thinking on my part.

Anyway the good people at CERN http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484 are burning the midnight oil checking the data most carefully, we will just have to be patient and wait for the definitive results of that deliberation. But that doesn't mean we can't speculate wildly in the meantime........... does it?

[Lateralman]

Could it be that the velocity of the earth’s rotation, the position on its axis, what direction and the time the particles are sent through the earth to the lab. Are effecting the measurements taken over such a long time. Making it appear that the neutrino particles are travelling faster than light?

The earth might be rotating slightly faster or slightly slower over a two or three-year data gathering period and so effect the progress of the particles making the neutrinos appear to travel faster than the speed of light. If the earth’s rotation is not consistent over the long time, the different measurements are taken.

Sending the particles by day or by night during that time may also make a difference as the inclination of the earth’s orbit would be different.

[Healerman]

But that doesn't mean we can't speculate wildly in the meantime........... does it?

Absolutely! Otherwise this Forum wouldn't exist, it's fueled on our flights of fantasy.

Relativity states that c is the absolute limit for everything, and even information must follow this law. Experiments in quantum tunnelling have sent a signal past the light speed limit, but although this is allowed according to Heisenberg, the process should randomise the signal, turn it into white noise. Yet, in fact, the signal remained coherent, Mozart in, Mozart out, at c+.

So the light speed limit has already been broken, and the LHC has provided another hint that we may have to rewrite physics...just a little bit.

[Lateralman]

Could it be to overtake the speed of light. Gravity is making the neutrinos stretch and snap forwards.

Is there a kink in the cable?

Have they tried looking at the results with one eye closed?

[M Paul Lloyd]

I do hope you were fully clothed when you wrote that Lateralman??

[MikeG]

It's interesting that neutrinos were the elements that were believed may have tachyonic behavior.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Being as they are electrically neutral, weakly interacting elementary subatomic particles.but its the fact that they have a small amount of mass, unlike photons which are mass-less.

So what propels something with mass to a velocity beyond that which is thought to be possible?

[Lateralman]

If any of my caustic, chums would like to contribute to my books, “The New Laws of Physics!” “Super Smash and our Saturn like Universe!” “Black Holes are not Holes!” and “The Flight of the DinoBird!” I bear no grudges you are all welcome.

Hang on a minute! I have just checked! You already have! Well, really! Come on; let’s be having your real names?

[...]

heres brian cox giving his spin on it on 6 music and he joins mike g http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15034852