BBC Focus Magazine

[Viking]

Over the last few years I’ve read, as I’m sure most of you have, the Dan Brown collection.
Now I appreciate this may all sound very conspiratorial, and not something I would normally subscribe to, but anyway:

With the whole 2012 thing coming up is it at all plausible that Dan Brown, other authors and maybe even facets of the movie making industry have been subvertly releasing information about esoteric ideas for years building up to an age of enlightenment.

Just a thought

[The Beige Avenger]

no.

It's fiction.

[Viking]

So you are keeping a open mind on the subject. lol.

[The Beige Avenger]

[M Paul Lloyd]

So you are keeping a open mind on the subject. lol.

Not so open that his brain might fall out.

Oh and welcome to the forum Viking, nice to have you posting.

[Viking]

Tis I, Randy Toads ( AKA Joe Kick ass)

I couldn't get my old account to open so had to do a new one.
How are you MPL?

[Shadowwolf]

With the whole 2012 thing coming up is it at all plausible that Dan Brown, other authors and maybe even facets of the movie making industry have been subvertly releasing information about esoteric ideas for years building up to an age of enlightenment.

Like Mr Avenger, no.

Here's why.

First up what is so special about 2012? Won't even happen anyways because the Rapture is going to occur in May 2011 with the world being destroyed a few months later in October of the same year, so there will be nothing left for 2012. Dooms day predictions are as old as the hills and have two things in common, one is the disaster that ends it all and the other commonality is their lack of occurrence, they all fail to come to pass. This 2012 thing is just more nonsense by some warping of a calendar cycles simple end, our calendar ends every 365 days yet you don't see doom predictions set for it so why single this one out? Of course the why is fairly obvious, it's the Mayan calendar and the Mayans were a group of enigmatic ancient South American Indians. It's old and non-Western hence it must be real, they must have known far more, been more in tune with the cosmos, more intuitive than us present day schmucks etc, old is good, this I believe is a large part of the thinking of the 2012 doom proponents and many an adherent of the what is not.

Next, why would authors and the movie industry be clandestinely releasing information about the end? Where did they come by this info, who exactly has done the research and passed it on? What's the purpose of releasing such info in such a haphazard and useless manner? Why are these authors and movie makers going along with it all? You see one problem with this idea of utilising the entertainment industry is that you invoke a conspiracy so large, of so many people that it could not possibly hold, it would be leaked. Such a conspiracy also seems rather vague and purposeless, there is hardly any overlap between Browns fiction on Templar, Illuminati and Occult RC power struggles and end of world scenarios erroneously attributed to the Mayans. Then of course there is the complete and total lack of evidence to support any of these notions in the real world, fine for fiction so long as it does not stretch to far, but back in reality all this Templar mystery and Mayan doom prophecy has zip going for em.

Lastly what enlightenment and to what ends? Which considering the level of these books and movies, it's not going to be much of an enlightenment never mind that the world allegedly ends so whats the need. If these people were seriously engaged in trying to usher in some new age of reason - at some shadowy others behest - then they could do a far better job than making stuff up and the heroic leaps of faith that generally characterise these works. The only thing they unintentionally create* - bar enjoyment of a story - is an ever increasing propensity for credulity, legions of adherents running about thinking that Brown's fiction is in some way real for instance.

You mention open minds, they're fine, it's good to question and be skeptical, however you follow the evidence and when that evidence is not forthcoming you are entitled to say nay, an open mind does not mean you have to grant every claim possible validity. Alas most believers tend to have very closed minds though they profess otherwise, to them the Mayan prophecy is true, the Illuminati real, there is no room, no allowance for the possibility that they have misinterpreted the data. This whole open mind thing is often a red herring, a device deployed by believers when faced with non-belief to insinuate to their adversaries that they are being less than intellectually honest. The hope being to force the opponent, irrespective of the evidence to at least admit that whatever is being claimed is genuinely possible. That way it can all become a matter of opinion and they may safely ignore any and all arguments against their claim, evidence becomes secondary. Plus it appears as though mere disbelief by itself is a threat to their belief, hence they keep pushing this open mind notion, as though anything less than tacit acknowledgment of possibility is scary to them. Which might imply that the belief is in some way known by the adherent to be extremely weak and so in need of much protection.

Btw I'm not saying that's why you said 'open mind' just saying why it often appears.

* The movie 2012 - which itself is pretty awful - seems an exception in that as part of their marketing drivel they actively pumped the woo well to sell their CGI fest, caring not for the potential fear and damage they were causing in inferring that this event was in some way real.

Oh and welcome back Mr Toads.

[Viking]

Hey Wolfy, how's you?

As I said, I'm the last person to buy into the whole conspiracy tripe, that said, it would be nice to think we are heading towards a time where the general populace think outside the box so to speak.

Maybe it's just indicative of getting old, but I find my self getting a tad philosophical as I approach the autumn years.

Clearly there is more going on in the world than we are made privy to, what is the purpose of that?

There are secrets out there, held by governments, Religions, and other organisations. What is the point of a secret if you never tell anyone!

[Shadowwolf]

As well as can be I suppose

...it would be nice to think we are heading towards a time where the general populace think outside the box so to speak.

It would be, unfortunately many consider thinking inside another box to be thinking outside the box, merely because it is different. We have made much progress but I'm often left stunned and saddened at times with how little has changed, the drapes may be new but what's behind is often little different to what was there before.

Clearly there is more going on in the world than we are made privy to, what is the purpose of that? [...] What is the point of a secret if you never tell anyone!

Not quite sure of your meaning here, but there are many reasons for subterfuge and secrecy and it happens all the time. Political maneuvering, crime, intellectual property, national interests, corporate dealings and so on. Much of it is highly localised or limited to special interests but in the case of very large multi-nationals and powerful states the secrets may have the potential for more global implications, often the motivations are money and power or sustained dominance of a sphere. However none of it stretches to shadowy groups of elites seeking global dominion, new world orders or funneling obscure messages through the entertainment industry. There may be secrets but the players are generally quite public.

[M Paul Lloyd]

Tis I, Randy Toads ( AKA Joe Kick ass)

I couldn't get my old account to open so had to do a new one.
How are you MPL?

Hiya Randy, goodness me where have you been? good to have you back whatever. I'm ok thanks, have a nice new shiney steel hip and waiting to have the other one done quite soon, so I guess I'm as well as can be expected thanks.

[worldmaker]

no.
It's fiction.

You're wrong, it is in fact - complete and utter tosh.
And anyway Dan Browne ripped it all off some other blokes down the pub, or somewhere.



And it's long passed 20:12 pm and the world's still here.

[The Beige Avenger]

no.
It's fiction.

You're wrong, it is in fact - complete and utter tosh.
And anyway Dan Browne ripped it all off some other blokes down the pub, or somewhere.



And it's long passed 20:12 pm and the world's still here.

Ahhh, so it'll be in the Tosh section in the library. Thanks, now I'll know where I can find some bog roll if I'm caught short.

[M Paul Lloyd]

I suppose it all depends on how you define your science fiction doesn't it?

A century ago it would have been clasified as 'romantic fiction' .

[The Beige Avenger]

I suppose it all depends on how you define your science fiction doesn't it?

A century ago it would have been clasified as 'romantic fiction' .

Enough about your childhood already!

[M Paul Lloyd]

[Shadowwolf]

Oh here we go again, back in my day...

[M Paul Lloyd]

Ah well now if it be a challenge you are offering? ......

[Healerman]

Oh here we go again, back in my day...

Eeee! When ah were't lad...

Sorry, but all this 2012 stuff will have to go back to the back of the line. I'm still waiting for the aliens to arrive

You know. The ones Hollywood et al were preparing us for with those propaganda movies like ET and CE3K

[M Paul Lloyd]

And don't forget 'The Day the Earth Stood Still' .... the original obviously not that sloppy remake. and 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers', 'The War of the Worlds', 'This Island Earth' to name but a few of the classics.

[Shadowwolf]

And don't forget 'The Day the Earth Stood Still' .... the original obviously not that sloppy remake.

Sloppy remake or no, the premise to either was preposterous, "Mankind is too violent, stop or we will kill you all."